(08-05-2022, 09:12 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Key word: "Hope" 

(08-05-2022, 09:09 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This isn't a BJ Hill vs Ogunjobi thread. I'm fine with them essentially paying BJ Hill over Ogunjobi. 

This is a thread about the hole left behind by Ogunjobi leaving. That productivity was never replaced. They are counting on an unknown to basically fill that 7 sack, 16 QB hit, 14 tackle for loss void. 

50% of the snaps are going to go to who? Either someone who isn't good or someone we have no idea what they bring to the table (Carter). 

IMO the Bengals didn't do enough to address this in the off-season. They are razor thin at interior DL and it could come back to significantly bite them. 

(08-04-2022, 10:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Geno too once Thornton benched himself. Stand up thing to do BTW.

(08-05-2022, 01:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He never benched himself.  Thornton was taking snaps at DE instead of DT due to an injury.

(08-05-2022, 01:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know it is your thread Weezy but that is exactly what this is about. BJ Hill vs Ogunjobi. BJ Hill is replacing Ogunjobi in the 
starting spot at 3-tech. Zach Carter, Cam Sample and Sam Hubbard will be trying to replace what BJ Hill did behind Ogunjobi.

(08-05-2022, 02:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I remember John saying something about Geno needing to play DT at the very least.

That was a long time ago though. I could be wrong.

(08-05-2022, 02:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: No I think it's more so BJ Hill's roster spot last year vs. Carter, Sample, etc. roster spot this year. Those are the guys that are replacing BJ Hills productivity and snaps from last year. 

(08-05-2022, 02:54 PM)J24 Wrote: It was actually Pat Sims that he said that about.Thorton never played with Geno.

(08-05-2022, 09:12 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You have no way of knowing that. They could also suck. 

Sorry, but during this 2-3 year Super Bowl window I'm not willing to chance it on rookies and second year players who have never played a snap in the NFL. 

(08-05-2022, 07:25 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Who do you suggest the Bengals add to alleviate your worries that is realistic ?

(08-05-2022, 07:25 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Who do you suggest the Bengals add to alleviate your worries that is realistic ?

(08-06-2022, 11:36 AM)samhain Wrote: I'm not overly concerned about the d-line or the secondary until they give me a reason to be in meaningful games.

It's starting to sound like a broken record, but the Bengals need to start planning to shell out money to keep their core intact.

The way to do that and still field a deep roster is by making smart, effective draft picks in middle rounds to fill rotational roles and eventually become significant contributors. That's exactly what I see them doing.

Before the 2020 draft, the linebackers depth sucked. They used several picks on the position. Now the team has good, fairly experienced linebacker depth. In addition to that, they snagged Kareem, who's shown he can contribute at DE who needed.

Before the 2021 draft, they needed depth on both lines. They drafted Ossai and Sample and Shelvin. Who knows what Shelvin is at this point? Ossai is a guy that seems capable he can get on the field, and Sample was solid and has a year of NFL seasoning under his belt.

This year, they addressed the needs in the secondary with Hill, Taylor-Britt, and Tycen Anderson. They added Carter to fill out the depth chart behind BJ Hill. You also have flotsam like Wyatt and Gunter hanging around.

A veteran depth signing here and there might not be the worst idea, but if some or many of the names I just typed don't pan out, then the team is in deep shit. I actually feel like the staff has a pretty good idea of what they are doing and trust that they have guys in house that can step into the needed roles.

As for what they might actually need, I'm still a bit worried about the backup quarterback and the 3rd down back positions. If Evans can't stay healthy, I don't think the current plan with Perine is all that potent. Mixon apparently doesn't have a lot of interest in blocking, or perhaps he's just not good enough at it to be capable in the role. It's not a huge issue, but I think they could do better. This issue was exposed badly in the Super Bowl, and not much was done to address it at all in the offseason. Gio was a terrific blocker and was practically perfect in that role. His absence probably stung a little last season. He was making too much money, so I see the logic behind the cut, but the role has yet to be effectively filled.

(08-04-2022, 12:39 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: and in my opinion, it's going to be the pass rush/secondary.

Both go hand in hand.

In 2020 the Bengals had arguably the worst pass rush in the NFL. They averaged a little over 1 sack a game. The Bengals knew how bad their pass rush was, so they brought in Larry Ogunjobi (7 sacks last year), Trey Hendrickson (14 sacks), and BJ Hill (5.5 sacks). In 2021, they more than doubled that sack per game average to 2.5 per game (11th in the NFL). Their pass rush was exponentially better in 2021 than it was in 2020. You can directly attribute this to the players they added.

Larry Ogunjobi averaged about 70% of the snaps last year, he won't be back on the team this year. BJ Hill averaged 49% of the snaps last year in the same position, effectively backing Larry up.

Here is Larry O's production from last year compared to BJ Hills:






We can argue back and fourth about which one is actually the better player, but one thing is for sure - the Bengals are basically counting on a combination of BJ Hill and Josh Tupuo to replace the production of Larry Ogunjobi and BJ Hill. Do you feel comfortable with Josh Tupuo getting 50% of the snaps next year and providing the kind of production that BJ Hill provided?

That is no bueno, especially for a team looking to make a Super Bowl run. My questions is this: if they felt the need to bring in BOTH BJ Hill and Larry Ogunjobi last year to help with the pass rush, why do they feel comfortable not supplementing BJ Hill with another quality option?

Only time will tell, but I REALLY think this comes back to bite them during the season. I think the pass rush will suffer this year and in turn I think the pass defense will suffer. It all starts with the defensive lines push - which has taken a pretty sizeable step back IMO.

(08-05-2022, 09:09 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This isn't a BJ Hill vs Ogunjobi thread. I'm fine with them essentially paying BJ Hill over Ogunjobi. 

This is a thread about the hole left behind by Ogunjobi leaving. That productivity was never replaced. They are counting on an unknown to basically fill that 7 sack, 16 QB hit, 14 tackle for loss void. 

50% of the snaps are going to go to who? Either someone who isn't good or someone we have no idea what they bring to the table (Carter). 

IMO the Bengals didn't do enough to address this in the off-season. They are razor thin at interior DL and it could come back to significantly bite them. 

(08-06-2022, 11:36 AM)samhain Wrote: I'm not overly concerned about the d-line or the secondary until they give me a reason to be in meaningful games.  

It's starting to sound like a broken record, but the Bengals need to start planning to shell out money to keep their core intact.

The way to do that and still field a deep roster is by making smart, effective draft picks in middle rounds to fill rotational roles and eventually become significant contributors.  That's exactly what I see them doing.  

Before the 2020 draft, the linebackers depth sucked.  They used several picks on the position.  Now the team has good, fairly experienced linebacker depth.  In addition to that, they snagged Kareem, who's shown he can contribute at DE who needed.

Before the 2021 draft, they needed depth on both lines.  They drafted Ossai and Sample and Shelvin.  Who knows what Shelvin is at this point?  Ossai is a guy that seems capable he can get on the field, and Sample was solid and has a year of NFL seasoning under his belt.

This year, they addressed the needs in the secondary with Hill, Taylor-Britt, and Tycen Anderson.  They added Carter to fill out the depth chart behind BJ Hill.  You also have flotsam like Wyatt and Gunter hanging around.

A veteran depth signing here and there might not be the worst idea, but if some or many of the names I just typed don't pan out, then the team is in deep shit.  I actually feel like the staff has a pretty good idea of what they are doing and trust that they have guys in house that can step into the needed roles.  

As for what they might actually need, I'm still a bit worried about the backup quarterback and the 3rd down back positions.  If Evans can't stay healthy, I don't think the current plan with Perine is all that potent.  Mixon apparently doesn't have a lot of interest in blocking, or perhaps he's just not good enough at it to be capable in the role.  It's not a huge issue, but I think they could do better.  This issue was exposed badly in the Super Bowl, and not much was done to address it at all in the offseason.  Gio was a terrific blocker and was practically perfect in that role.  His absence probably stung a little last season.  He was making too much money, so I see the logic behind the cut, but the role has yet to be effectively filled.

(08-06-2022, 05:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think the biggest holes on this team now are...

1. LG
2. CB (I don't trust Apple)
3. Punter
4. #4 WR

Not sure I see DT even being a top-4 concern right now. Even if we went top-5, I would put either LB (Wilson had high highs, low lows, very inconsistent, iffy on Pratt) or Collins' back there.