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+--- Thread: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... (/thread-33629.html)
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - PhilHos - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 01:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: There's a huge issue with the argument that talent is carrying Taylor.
My argument with this particular ... umm ... argument is that if the players won in spite of Taylor last year, why are they not doing it this year?
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 10:23 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Katie and Duke have been constants for 20 years now. Only once Zac arrived did internal changes start to happen. I’m addition to the roster overhaul they got a practice bubble that everyone had been clamoring for, for decades.
Is Zac a good play caller? No, not especially. Does he overcomplicate the offense, yes. Should he hand off play calling duties? Yea!!
I don’t see many people defending this take. But as a head coach, and all the responsibilities that come with that, he has done a good job. It would
Just be nice for him to swallow his pride so he can focus on everything but OC duties.
This. Right. Here.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 10:35 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Percentages ?
Zac has taken the Bengals to the SB 100% of the times he has been in the playoffs.
For years people said the playoff wins was all that counted and screw regular season, ask Carson, Andy, and Marvin.
Besides he has already signed a 5 year extension and is going nowhere. So to me it's better to try of think of solutions like bring in a OC or whatever than just constantly ***** and moan.
Not happy right now after Browns game or the start of the season either. Yet the story is not finished and our top players are injured and some are obviously playing poorly.
Don't recall any of the critics warning us about how bad Jonah would play this year, or wanting him cut or traded in off season. Or that Evan McPhearson would come down to earth and be a mere mortal, or Burrow would look lost at beginning of season after surgery. Heck said all spring to draft a stud RB and not one person agreed back then saying we were fine with Mixon. Don't think Zac saw these things coming either, just like we didn't.
Certainly Zac could be doing better, but there is plenty of blame to go around and Pollack seems like the coach doing the worst imo.
I would have called you crazy coming into the season wanting to move on from Mixon. Now, I'm right there with you.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: This. Right. Here.
Yes, Bengalbug nailed my thoughts.
(11-02-2022, 02:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: I would have called you crazy coming into the season wanting to move on from Mixon. Now, I'm right there with you.
So true, Zac would look like a genius HC because we would have a much better record if Mixon had any vision at all.
Almost seems like sabotage out there missing those giant holes the OL is providing. The OL should be furious watching
that film of Monday night as Rfaulk said in the other thread LMAO! Giant hole right in front of him, cuts laterally lol
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, Bengalbug nailed my thoughts.
So true, Zac would look like a genius HC because we would have a much better record if Mixon had any vision at all.
Almost seems like sabotage out there missing those giant holes the OL is providing. The OL should be furious watching
that film of Monday night as Rfaulk said in the other thread LMAO! Giant hole right in front of him, cuts laterally lol
Yeah man, people on here be like "wHy ArE tHeY aBaNdOnInG tHe RuN?" If that doesn't show you why, nothing will. That said, it is on him to get Joe out of there and try someone else.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - bfine32 - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 08:58 AM)Housh Wrote: Y’all defending Zac like he’s been making playoffs for 10 years or something
He's averaging a Superbowl appearance once every three years in his coaching career.
No one can convince me that Joe Burrow is a more physically gifted QB than Carson Palmer
No one can convince me that Chad, TJ, and Slim weren't on par with Tee, Ja'Marr, and Tyler
No one can convince me that Joe Mixon is better than Rudi Johnson
No one can convince me that the 05 oline wasn't much better than the 21 oline
A defense of Justin Smith, Deltha O'Neal and Odell was inferior to Hendrickson, Wilson, and Awuzie
We as message board knuckleheads have little to no idea what the coaching staff does to build their teams. I do know in 8 years the core of the 05 team won 0 playoff games, while the 21 team went to the Superbowl team in 2.
So, yeah, call me "hilarious", but I'll defend that.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - PhilHos - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No one can convince me that Joe Burrow is a more physically gifted QB than Joe Burrow
But is Joe Burrow a better passer than Joe Burrow?
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - TheCincinnatiKid - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But is Joe Burrow a better passer than Joe Burrow?
Who cares about that on field stuff. Does Joe Burrow wear a better pregame suit than Joe Burrow?
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Nepa - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 01:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: There's a huge issue with the argument that talent is carrying Taylor. Last year, everyone predicted that we would be battling for the #1 overall pick, not the Lombardi. That's based on what our talent level was evaluated at.
*****
I don't like to be "that guy", but this board as a whole has vastly overrated our players for years. ****
That's true. And this year the oddsmakers had the Bengals third in the division and 12th in the league prior to Watson's suspension being raised from 6 to 11 games. And then they still placed the Bengals behind Baltimore in the Division. Other analysts assessing the Bengals don't see the team as having SuperBowl-level talent. The Bengals didn't have anyone in the top 10 of NFL.com's top 100 and only Chase in the top 20 (18th). The OL doesn't have a single probowler.
Maybe we can think the analysts are underratingthe Bengals talent, that we are this elite group, but maybe we are overrating the talent. What the Bengals did last year is play well as a group and overcome in-game adversity, such as falling behind 21-3 to KC in the game at KC and still believing in themselves and coming back. I don't think we can say that the coaches put us in a 21-3 bind and then the players alone overcame and brought the team back. The coaches deserve a lot of credit for last year.
If one goes by the NFL and ESPN top-100 and probowl voting, then the Bengals have two truly elite players: Chase and Burrow. There are some very good players, such as Reader and Hendrickson and Bell and Awuzie and McPherson (normally, not so far this year). But most analysts put the talent level near or out of the top 10, not like they rate the talent level of Buffalo and KC, for example. (Of course, right now the Bengals are missing three of their best players, in Chase, Reader, and Awuzie, so I would be curious where analysts see the talent level at this minute.)
We cannot discount the fact that a team expected to do poorly last year played in the Super Bowl and then say that the players did this despite the coaches. The team includes the coaches.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - PhilHos - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 03:00 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Who cares about that on field stuff. Does Joe Burrow wear a better pregame suit than Joe Burrow?
Good question. Joe Burrow should invite Joe Burrow onto Joe Burrow's podcast and ask Joe Burrow that question.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - NUGDUKWE - 11-02-2022
I'm beginning to think that we had some good core players already on the roster. Then not only did we knock it out of the park in free agency as far as guys playing on the field well together. But those same guys are really good attitude guys. So in short I'm giving the players and Lou the credit for our success. I think this team wins in spite of Zac.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - rfaulk34 - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But is Joe Burrow a better passer than Joe Burrow?
Debatable. But i can guarantee you that Joe Burrow is a better Joe Burrow than Joe Burrow is.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Synric - 11-02-2022
1. Brian Callahan is the Offensive Coordinator not Zac Taylor
2. They can only call plays that are in their playbook and they have set up for the week.
Fans focus on the word "playcalling" but it's a more on their game prep and that's the entire offensive staff.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Essex Johnson - 11-02-2022
(11-01-2022, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What exactly makes Zac a good HC?
-The team has started either bad or slow each of the years he coached us. 5-4 was our best midway record under Zac.
-The team rarely scores TDs in the 1st quarter. Many of those plays are scripted. It goes to game prep.
-The team has an insanely bad record when trailing going into the 4th quarter.
-He's had no success as an OC at any previous stop...A good HC is responsible for the coordinators.
So what exactly makes him a good HC?
On the Pro side: The players do seem to like him, atleast in interviews. Taking the gameballs to local businesses after playoff wins is cool too.
He built the team up after taking it over, has us back to being competitive and hmmmmm Coached us to the SB...
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - THE PISTONS - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 03:16 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm beginning to think that we had some good core players already on the roster. Then not only did we knock it out of the park in free agency as far as guys playing on the field well together. But those same guys are really good attitude guys. So in short I'm giving the players and Lou the credit for our success. I think this team wins in spite of Zac.
Put Joe Burrow and Chase on the Steelers or Browns...or any team and I think the results get much better.
I agree with your premise. If you replaced Zac with say Tomlin...would we be better or worse?
If you replaced Zac with LaFleur from the Packers are we better or worse? Kingsbury? do this for other coaches.
Is it Wow - No coach could win with Burrow and Chase, but Zac did? Or is it, wow those guys give a coach a great advantage?
Like IF you put Zac coaching the Panthers or Lions - Are they SB bound within his 1st 4 years?
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Destro - 11-02-2022
Throw out the absolute best Taylor has done.
Now throw out the absolute worst.
I say what is left is what he really is, and that is not very good.
If you say you can't ignore last year's Super Bowl, how can you ignore the prior years, as well as this year? Hell, the Super Bowl team had some games with a lot of head scratching decisions made. Somehow, because the last 30 years were so bad, that subpar is somehow acceptable. Continue to pick early in the draft and say, "we were good once!"
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Bengalbug - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 03:54 PM)Destro Wrote: Throw out the absolute best Taylor has done.
Now throw out the absolute worst.
I say what is left is what he really is, and that is not very good.
If you say you can't ignore last year's Super Bowl, how can you ignore the prior years, as well as this year? Hell, the Super Bowl team had some games with a lot of head scratching decisions made. Somehow, because the last 30 years were so bad, that subpar is somehow acceptable. Continue to pick early in the draft and say, "we were good once!"
Are the bengals 1-7? I’m confused. I get that .500 is below expectations and we are coming off the worst loss of the season, but let’s chill for a minute. The bengals are currently projected to pick 18 next year, which means much closer to playoffs than “picking early in the draft”.
The team Zac inherited was Bad, really bad.
A QB who has been a backup the last 3 years.
John Ross and Auden tate are WR2 and WR3
None of the offensive line starts anywhere in the league
FFS go look at that team. Hindsight is 20/20, but 2-14 was the outcome regardless of coach.
2020 had some positive improvement. You can see some roster turnover and players buying in. This team was so much more competitive that in the finals weeks, with nothing to play for and only risk their draft position, they went out and smoked the Steelers. That’s when I knew Zac had this teams trust.
2021 SB
2022 currently .500, not 1-7 that some would seem. Additionally, as others have mentioned, the SB hangover is REAL. Only three qbs have ever made it back to a SB (not won) within 5 years of their first one Jim Kelly, Peyton manning and Tom Brady. So let’s put some perspective on everything.
In addition to that, the injury bug hasn’t been friendly to this team this year (Joe Burrows surgery included).
In addition to that, Cincinnati is a very low desired place to coach and challenging to succeed.
R-E-L-A-X
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - bfine32 - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But is Joe Burrow a better passer than Joe Burrow?
(11-02-2022, 03:00 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Who cares about that on field stuff. Does Joe Burrow wear a better pregame suit than Joe Burrow?
(11-02-2022, 03:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Debatable. But i can guarantee you that Joe Burrow is a better Joe Burrow than Joe Burrow is.
Shut Up
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - jason - 11-02-2022
(11-01-2022, 11:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He
Took
A
Team
Who
Hadn't
Won
A
Playoff
Game
In
30
Years
To
The
Super
Bowl
In
Only
3
Years
Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase did it in under 3 years.
RE: I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 11-02-2022
(11-02-2022, 02:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah man, people on here be like "wHy ArE tHeY aBaNdOnInG tHe RuN?" If that doesn't show you why, nothing will. That said, it is on him to get Joe out of there and try someone else.
Yes, if Zac doesn't reduce Mixon's snaps and up Perine and Evans than I will blame Zac for it.
It is obvious what the problem is. The banged up LT and the RB with no vision.