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+--- Thread: The elephant in the room, again, Oline (/thread-34820.html)
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - BengalsBong - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 03:46 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Jonah, Volson, Karras, Cappa, Collins, Adeniji, Carman, Smith, and Hill is a really good start. Could it be better? Of course. Did we just win a shitload of games with those guys playing OL? Yep. Cool keeping the same OL that rattled off 7 wins in a row then injuries started and the streak still kept going to 10 wins before the refs intervened.
We have a good group. We don't have to freak out and do anything drastic as far as cutting one of the guys who we already have. We are more than likely losing Scharping and Prince has already moved on. So there is room for new talent without getting rid of anybody.
It would definitely be nice to throw a top player into the mix. But it's not entirely necessary
Volson will be a year older and should show improvement. I like Carman at LT and he is a 2nd round pick so the front office will want to see him play. Karras and Cappa are staying put unless Karras is moved to LG. RT has me worried my hopes is we let Pollack draft a RT in the 2nd round.
J Williams is here since we picked up the 5th year option he can fight with the RT for a spot and back up Carman.
If we draft, we need to draft a guy for the spot he played in college. If we want a RT draft a college RT.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Ell Prez - 02-03-2023
If we could trade Higgins for a LT or RT, should we do it? Or trade
Him for a 1st? We could draft a LT/RT plus a LG/RG in round 1.
At the same time, if we just cut Mixon, Collins, and Boyd, I think that pays for Tee. I would rather do that than trade him for a 1st.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Sled21 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 09:32 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: If we could trade Higgins for a LT or RT, should we do it? Or trade
Him for a 1st? We could draft a LT/RT plus a LG/RG in round 1.
At the same time, if we just cut Mixon, Collins, and Boyd, I think that pays for Tee. I would rather do that than trade him for a 1st.
Ah hell no..... Tee wants to stay here and play with Joe, we need him here, he ain't going nowhere.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Frank Booth - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 10:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ah hell no..... Tee wants to stay here and play with Joe, we need him here, he ain't going nowhere.
If you can get multiple high picks in return, especially two 1st rounders, you do it.
KC decided to trade tyreek, put elite talent in the trenches, and bring in cheap, good value free agent pass catchers. That seems to be the better strategy
As long as Burow and Jamarr are there, you’re gonna have talented receivers/tight ends want to come and play for the bengals for short term and little money. Look at Juju in kc or Hurst in cincy.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Tomkat - 02-03-2023
I think we absolutely need to keep Tee, somehow. He has the height for catches that Chase doesn't.
In my opinion, the primary "core" you have to keep and build around is... Burrow, Chase, Higgins
The secondary "core" is... Boyd, Hurst, Mixon, Perine
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Fan_in_Kettering - 02-03-2023
Two of the five positions on the Cincinnati offensive line are solid: Ted Karras at center and Alex Cappa at right guard. In fact I sincerely believe if Alex Cappa would have started on Sunday the Bengals would be in the Super Bowl right now. In 2023 I would hope Frank Pollack would anchor the line around Karras and Cappa — but I also like what I see from Cordell Volson at left guard. He’s young and raw but he improved immensely as the season progressed.
At left tackle I was impressed with Jackson Carman who I believe is much better than Jonah Williams.
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RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - casear2727 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 02:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess I'm missing your point. I asked if anyone was concerned about Cappa ending the last 2 seasons with an ankle injury and you said "It's not on him".
Regardless of how the injury occurred it's "on them".
It appears that you are suggesting he is injury prone, but that doesnt make any sense if a player is thrown into the back of his legs while blocking. That is like saying someone is a bad driver because they were involved in 2 car wrecks in which the other drivers ran red lights or something to that effect.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - TheLeonardLeap - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 10:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ah hell no..... Tee wants to stay here and play with Joe, we need him here, he ain't going nowhere.
Tee also wants paid. He has the same agent as Jessie Bates (who also wanted to stay here and play with Joe... but only for $18m/yr) and Deshaun Watson.
Burrow's going to have to start elevating some receiving talent once he signs his extension, because there's not room on any team for a huge QB contract and two huge WR contracts. Between Higgins and Chase, it's going to be Chase.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Go Cards - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tee also wants paid. He has the same agent as Jessie Bates (who also wanted to stay here and play with Joe... but only for $18m/yr) and Deshaun Watson.
Burrow's going to have to start elevating some receiving talent once he signs his extension, because there's not room on any team for a huge QB contract and two huge WR contracts. Between Higgins and Chase, it's going to be Chase.
This ^^^^^
Everybody loves Tee but it's all about the $.
Once you pay Burrow and Chase (which is going to happen) the money is not there to pay another elite WR not on a rookie deal and have a solid team around them still.
The way I see it you have to trim the fat to pay for Burrow and Chase already so the question becomes, what high priced positions can be found in the draft that are ready to plug in and go immediately. I would say RB and WR's are the easiest to find NFL ready in the draft that can produce on their rookie deal. Especially when joining a good WR room with a great #1 that draws double coverage, plus features an elite QB.
Would move on from Boyd too if he tries to break the bank, although he is much more affordable than Tee will be and may actually do a team friendly deal. So believe there is still hope to keep him.
If Bengals could get a 1st round pick in the top 15 selections for Tee then it would be tempting imo. Once again, Tee is great and I am a big fan of his but its all about the money
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - casear2727 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:41 AM)Go Cards Wrote: This ^^^^^
Everybody loves Tee but it's all about the $.
Once you pay Burrow and Chase (which is going to happen) the money is not there to pay another elite WR not on a rookie deal and have a solid team around them still.
The way I see it you have to trim the fat to pay for Burrow and Chase already so the question becomes, what high priced positions can be found in the draft that are ready to plug in and go immediately. I would say RB and WR's are the easiest to find NFL ready in the draft that can produce on their rookie deal. Especially when joining a good WR room with a great #1 that draws double coverage, plus featuring an elite QB.
Would move on from Boyd too if he tries to break the bank, although he is much more affordable than Tee will be and may actually do a team friendly deal.
If Bengals could get a 1st round pick in the top 15 selections for Tee then it would be tempting imo. Once again, Tee is great and I am a fan of his but its all about the money
Sadly this is the absolute truth. With the WR market being so hot, I would hope to be able to get a #1 and a #2 (even if the 2 is next year and depending how low the #1 pick would be).
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Sled21 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:00 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: If you can get multiple high picks in return, especially two 1st rounders, you do it.
KC decided to trade tyreek, put elite talent in the trenches, and bring in cheap, good value free agent pass catchers. That seems to be the better strategy
As long as Burow and Jamarr are there, you’re gonna have talented receivers/tight ends want to come and play for the bengals for short term and little money. Look at Juju in kc or Hurst in cincy.
Tee is a known commodity. Even 1st round picks can be absolute busts... see John Ross.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Sled21 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:22 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tee also wants paid. He has the same agent as Jessie Bates (who also wanted to stay here and play with Joe... but only for $18m/yr) and Deshaun Watson.
Burrow's going to have to start elevating some receiving talent once he signs his extension, because there's not room on any team for a huge QB contract and two huge WR contracts. Between Higgins and Chase, it's going to be Chase.
Even at a negotiated price, Tee is going to make a lot more money than Bates ever will just by nature of his position. Bates wants a huge payday that personally I don't see coming from anywhere. Jessie needs to take a good look at his film and understand why they didn't offer Fitzpatrick money. And the agent doesn't have the final say, the player does. If Tee tells his agent "I want to stay here with Burrow and Chase, make it happen" the agent has to do that or be risk being fired.
'
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Frank Booth - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:14 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Tee is a known commodity. Even 1st round picks can be absolute busts... see John Ross.
Nobody says you have to spend it on receivers. The more draft picks you can accumulate, the more talent you will receive
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Hammerstripes - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:00 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: If you can get multiple high picks in return, especially two 1st rounders, you do it.
KC decided to trade tyreek, put elite talent in the trenches, and bring in cheap, good value free agent pass catchers. That seems to be the better strategy
As long as Burow and Jamarr are there, you’re gonna have talented receivers/tight ends want to come and play for the bengals for short term and little money. Look at Juju in kc or Hurst in cincy.
They already had those linemen when Tyreek was there, so it's a little different.
I have no issues with the interior line. Volson, Karras and Cappa are good enough guys to beat any team in the league. I really wish this team wouldn't have picked up Jonah's option. You can't have a guy like that playing LT and leading the league in sacks allowed.
We absolutley need to find a RT for next year. Collins wasn't that great when he was playing and the injury is worrisome.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Frank Booth - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: They already had those linemen when Tyreek was there, so it's a little different.
I have no issues with the interior line. Volson, Karras and Cappa are good enough guys to beat any team in the league. I really wish this team wouldn't have picked up Jonah's option. You can't have a guy like that playing LT and leading the league in sacks allowed.
We absolutley need to find a RT for next year. Collins wasn't that great when he was playing and the injury is worrisome.
The point is they decided to pay Thuney who is elite, then they drafted best o-lineman available with Humphrey. They have the best interior in the league, and trading Hill to clear up space and bring in other talent to help other deficiencies has helped them tremendously.
This is what I hope the bengals do. Volson can be upgraded. He’s not bad, but he’s not good. If a stud left guard is available, you take him. Or if a stud center is available, get him, move Karras to Lg
You could always bring in talented value receivers on short term deals. This seems to be the smarter play on offense
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Sled21 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Nobody says you have to spend it on receivers. The more draft picks you can accumulate, the more talent you will receive
Point remains.... Warrick, Kijana Carter, Chris Perry, Odell Thurman, Klingler, Akili Smith, Billy Price. Some people would also put Apple in this category. Any draft pick is a crapshoot. Tee is a proven commodity.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Sled21 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:00 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: If you can get multiple high picks in return, especially two 1st rounders, you do it.
KC decided to trade tyreek, put elite talent in the trenches, and bring in cheap, good value free agent pass catchers. That seems to be the better strategy
As long as Burow and Jamarr are there, you’re gonna have talented receivers/tight ends want to come and play for the bengals for short term and little money. Look at Juju in kc or Hurst in cincy.
Tyreek did not want to be in KC anymore and asked to be traded.
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - Frank Booth - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Point remains.... Warrick, Kijana Carter, Chris Perry, Odell Thurman, Klingler, Akili Smith, Billy Price. Some people would also put Apple in this category. Any draft pick is a crapshoot. Tee is a proven commodity.
Lmao wow this post
Sky Moore isn’t looking any good for KC, but they still accumulated enough draft picks to where spending a 2nd rounder on a crappy wr isn’t negatively affecting them on a noticeable level
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - TheLeonardLeap - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:17 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Even at a negotiated price, Tee is going to make a lot more money than Bates ever will just by nature of his position. Bates wants a huge payday that personally I don't see coming from anywhere. Jessie needs to take a good look at his film and understand why they didn't offer Fitzpatrick money. And the agent doesn't have the final say, the player does. If Tee tells his agent "I want to stay here with Burrow and Chase, make it happen" the agent has to do that or be risk being fired.
'
Sure, but you don't get an agent chasing absolute top dollar and raising the top of the market if you don't want him. You don't pay a guy 3% of your contract if you don't have to or he's not earning it. That's $3m+ you're just giving away if you aren't even trying to make a tough extension negotiation.
Even if hypothetically Tee took an unrealistically enormous sweetheart deal, that means he's only making what, $20m/yr rather than $25m/yr? That's still going to be an unprecedented amount to go to a QB and 2 WRs.
Let me put it this way... when Burrow and Chase both get extensions, you're going to have 2 of the top-20 paid players in the NFL on the same team. One of those 2 will likely be top-2. You're going to have to save money on other offensive skill positions with rookie and lower contract guys. It's already going to be a decent challenge to create a complete team even without adding a 2nd WR who will likely be top-30 paid ($25m/yr).
RE: The elephant in the room, again, Oline - TheLeonardLeap - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: They already had those linemen when Tyreek was there, so it's a little different.
I have no issues with the interior line. Volson, Karras and Cappa are good enough guys to beat any team in the league. I really wish this team wouldn't have picked up Jonah's option. You can't have a guy like that playing LT and leading the league in sacks allowed.
We absolutley need to find a RT for next year. Collins wasn't that great when he was playing and the injury is worrisome.
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