(09-26-2024, 10:11 AM)Whatever Wrote: You completely lost me at paying Tee $30 mil a year.

No player is untradable, imo.  But I need 2 1st's to even consider moving Chase.

So, trading Chase for less than his value because you don't want to pay him what he's worth and then being forced to resign Tee for half again what he's worth because our WR corps will be in such bad shape really doesn't make sense at all.

(09-25-2024, 10:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There is literally zero evidence of this. At LSU he had both Jefferson and Chase, and in Cincinnati he’s always had at least Chase or Tee.

And before anyone brings up Brady or Mahomes they both had HoF TE’s, and HoF HC’s. Asking Burrow to carry a Zac Taylor/Dan Pitcher offense with no high end weapons would be a disaster.

(09-26-2024, 10:52 AM)Whatever Wrote: Bottom line is this.  You can't assume Joe Burrow will do Brady/Mahomes things until you actually SEE Burrow do Brady/Mahomes things.  

I love Burrow, but it may be time to be realistic about him.  Is he good enough to win a SB?  Yes.  Is he a guy like Mahomes or Allen that can carry an offense?  No.  He just doesn't have the physical gifts those guys have.  

Look around the league at other QB's.  Sam Darnold has been a joke forever.  Now, with JJ and another 1st round WR in Hunter, he looks like a stud.  Geno Smith washed out in how many places?  Now with Metcalf, Lockett, and Smith-Njaba, he looks like a mid-tier NFL starter.  The Browns put nothing around Baker from a WR standpoint and ran him out of town.  Now with Evans and Godwin, he's making them look foolish.

(09-26-2024, 10:34 AM)J24 Wrote: Then we disagree!

(09-25-2024, 04:00 PM)Synric Wrote: It's never better to "use the money elsewhere" because you end up with mediocre free agents that don't affect the game the same way.

(09-25-2024, 03:55 PM)J24 Wrote: So in essence do you want Chase at 160 or Tee at 90 + a new 3T, + a new NT, + a 1st rd pick , and a 2nd Rd pick.

(09-26-2024, 01:11 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: It's a team game... we already have our #1 WR Chase, and are 0-3. We lack the players.  With this org, just with Chase ain't gonna get us the wins. Trade him.

(09-25-2024, 03:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes; we should trade him. No, we should not just let him walk in free agency.

Chase is about to get a 4 year, 160 million dollar deal, and with 120 Million in guaranteed money. If you sign him to that deal; then we can kiss signing any other legit players to long term deals in free agency.

On the other hand if you sign Tee to a 3 year, 90 Million dollar deal, and 60 million guaranteed money. You probably could fit 1 or 2  more players who have decent contracts onto the team.

So in essence do you want Chase at 160 or Tee at 90 + a new 3T, + a new NT, + a 1st rd pick , and a 2nd Rd pick.

(09-26-2024, 06:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I would rather pay Chase 35 million per year vs giving Tee 30 million per year.  I dont think Chase is worth 35 million per year but Tee is certainly not worth 30 million.

(09-26-2024, 06:51 PM)J24 Wrote: Chase is going to get 40  a year and he is going to get over 100 million guaranteed. Tee is going to get 25 to 30 million a year in the open market and will get over 50 guaranteed.

(09-26-2024, 06:58 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Chase should not get more than Jefferson.  I wouldnt sign Chase at 160 this year and I wouldnt do it next year.  140 million is more than fair to Chase.  I dont see how some of you guys keep trying to justify Chase getting a 4 year 160 million extension when Jefferson only got 140 for 4 years.  I dont see the Bengals offering Chase 20 million more next year when they didnt this year

(09-26-2024, 01:11 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: It's a team game... we already have our #1 WR Chase, and are 0-3. We lack the players.  With this org, just with Chase ain't gonna get us the wins. Trade him.

(09-26-2024, 06:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're getting a new 3T and a new NT for $10m/yr? Who? Rankins was $12.5m/yr on his own and he isn't the answer.

You would need another WR because Tee can't play a full starter's workload. Never has and probably never will. He peaked at 74.81% of the snaps in 2020. Then 64.60%, 68.38%, 52.67%, and so far this year he's already missed 2 whole games.

So really the question is do you want...
-All-Pro caliber #1 WR
or
-Unreliable lower-end #1 WR (and a much shittier backup WR playing instead 1/3rd+ of the time) + $10m/yr + 1st rd pick + 2nd rd pick (and ~$5.8m/yr of that $10m/yr would be used up by your draft picks, so you're only really freeing up roughly $4.2m/yr)

(09-26-2024, 07:31 PM)J24 Wrote: Let's me clear this up.

 The guranteed money is the main issue not the cap price. If you pay Chase he is going to double what Tee gets in guaranteed money. We're looking at  least 100 million  in guaranteed money and probably closer to 120 million for Chase. While Tee is probably going to get between 50 and 60 million in guaranteed money.





You can get a decent 3T for 18 to 21 Million a year with anywhere from 30 to 45 Million guranteed money and a  nose tackle for 15 to 20 million a year with with 15 to 25 in guranteed money.

So Chase at 120 million guranteed or Tee 60 million guaranteed + 3T at 40 Million guranteed + a NT at 20 million. guranteed. 

Yes, we're going to have cut players for it to work and yes we are going to have to draft a WR early next draft(even if we keep both Wrs we would draft another WR early in the next draft) to make it work it.

(09-26-2024, 07:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So then your original equation isn't very good if you're not including the people we'd need to both cut and required draft picks made to make it work.

$40m/yr and by your own numbers $63-71m/yr over a shorter number of years (so there's less time to move it around or backload it) IS a pretty significant cap difference that you can't just put on the backburner when talking about which option is better.

Not to mention that all of that is assuming there is even a really good $18-21m/yr 3T and $15-20m/yr NT are both available in FA in the first place, which I don't think there is. I just saw a list where right now BJ Hill is considered the 5th best DT in the 2025 FA class. Apparently it's a very weak IDL FA class. Alim McNeill is currently the highest rated IDL according to multiple lists I just checked.

(09-26-2024, 09:16 PM)J24 Wrote: I think we can have a championship  caliber offense with Tee as the #1 WR

(09-26-2024, 07:26 PM)Housh Wrote: With this logic why not trade Burrow....

USe the same exact logic

(09-26-2024, 09:16 PM)J24 Wrote: New question l; would you rather  have Tee Higgins contract 3 years, at 84 million with 55 million guaranteed + a NT, and + 3T + a 1st rd pick in 2025  and a  2nd Rd pick in 2025 or Chase at  4 years, 160 million, with 120 million guaranteed. That's the question; Yes or No!

There's merit to both answers; Chase is the best Wr game and arguably the best non QB in the game and in the other scenario you can practically fix the Dline and get two high rd picks. Along with signing Tee. It all depends on what you value. 

I think we can have a championship  caliber offense with Tee as the #1 WR and I think we can fix the interior Dline in the offseason with the money saved. 

While resigning Chase will only keep our Offense at a high level and we would still be pretty thin at the Dline

Secondly,  I disagree with your assessment on the free agency  interior defensive line. 

Milton Williams, Alim Mcneill,  and Osa Odighizuwa all fit what the Bengals want at 3T with age, production,  and athleticism requirements. Bobby Brown is really the only NT that fits the what the Bengals want.