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RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Whatever - 11-11-2024

(11-09-2024, 12:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When the team was historically bad and underperformed w/ CP9 I attributed it to the ownership not treating the players as professionals with their amenities, travel, and facilities. This was compounded by a lack of GM and understaffed scouting department.

Marvin came along and helped w/ the FO stuff as far as player selection/management. He was able to draft fairly well, yet got little help via FA or with the facilities.

Zac entered and the FO made a 180. We started dabbling more in FA and upgrading facilities, but now drafting is suspect.

We're almost "there" as mad as folks are currently because we have a losing record, we have one of the best teams in the NFL, but we cannot maintain it because we cannot draft for shit. KC can part w/ big $ players because they can replace them through the draft. Our only option is to replace them w/ cheaper FAs and crappy draft picks.

So the answer is currently talent, but it's because of the FO

One of the issues plaguing is in recent years is that with the current draft setup, the coaching staff is involved in a lot of the scouting.  With the consistently poor return on investment from premium draft capital spent on the defense, that's more of an indicator that the defensive staff needs overhauled.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 11-11-2024

Coaching + terrible FO moves.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-12-2024

(11-09-2024, 12:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:
He sums it up perfectly here.


Like I said.... turning chicken shit into chicken salad. Vince Lombardi ain't coming back to life any time soon. Why can't these nepotistic MORONS get it through their THICK skulls that they just need to expand the personnel department? Why? Thirty three ***** years of this bullshit and you're still doing things this way. It's absolutely unbelievable.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-12-2024

(11-10-2024, 10:07 PM)TheFan Wrote: Do you think it's possible they just one of the best HCs and DCs in the league? 


Yes, and a top notch front office/personnel department. What would you say the Brown family is in that regard? 

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-12-2024

(11-08-2024, 08:25 PM)J24 Wrote: It's more fire the Blackburns than Tobin.

While I agree, they h'ain't firing themselves...

(11-08-2024, 09:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is where I'm at. 

No way Duke didn't want to keep Jessie Bates. It's one of his best draft picks ever. The extension was on the table. It wasn't good enough. Same thing with Tee. 

That falls on the Blackburn's.

Our inability to draft recently? That's on Tobin. 

A head has to roll for this....and I'm sure you're correct about Bates...and maybe Higgins. His drafts have been terrible in the first round for a decade. That's inexcusable. If he's being overruled on draft day by the chowder head Browns, then he needs to pack it in, and drop truth bombs on his way out.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - TheFan - 11-16-2024

(11-12-2024, 12:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, and a top notch front office/personnel department. What would you say the Brown family is in that regard? 

They were just as trash of a franchise as the Bengals prior to Reid. Andy Reid and what he brought is the difference. 

Their last time in the conference championship was 1993 and last superbowl appearance was in the 1960s. Then Andy Reid happened. 

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - wanga - 11-16-2024

Belichick and Brady, Reid and Mahomes, both backed by quality FO’s.
Taylor and Burrow not really ringing the same bells for me.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - ochocincos - 11-16-2024

(11-12-2024, 12:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: While I agree, they h'ain't firing themselves...


A head has to roll for this....and I'm sure you're correct about Bates...and maybe Higgins. His drafts have been terrible in the first round for a decade. That's inexcusable. If he's being overruled on draft day by the chowder head Browns, then he needs to pack it in, and drop truth bombs on his way out.

Tobin is only 54 years old.
He's got at least 10 more years before retiring but likely will have a FO role for beyond 65 years old because why not.

Him doing the bolded will basically get him out of the league because no team will want him after that.
It'd be a career killer.
Now, if you're on the verge of retiring and don't care about having a job again, by all means  Smirk

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Big_Ern - 11-17-2024

for the Defense, Rex Ryan just said on gameday that other than Trey, they are all scout team level talent. Said they aren't even NFL caliber players (other than Trey). I for one think BJ Hill is a guy when healthy. But Rex said this after breaking down the tape.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Millhouse - 11-17-2024

(11-17-2024, 01:36 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: for the Defense, Rex Ryan just said on gameday that other than Trey, they are all scout team level talent.  Said they aren't even NFL caliber players (other than Trey).  I for one think BJ Hill is a guy when healthy.  But Rex said this after breaking down the tape.

Yup saw that too. Bengals have an offense playing at a high enough level to win it all. Defense is just depleted of talent across the board tho, and Lou is really struggling due to it as almost all DCs would. That's how bad the talent level has fallen on defense.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Synric - 11-17-2024

Last year my 1 big ticket FA Target was Christian Wilkins. This year it's going to be Trey Smith. I love how he plays trying to bury guys every snap. Bengals are missing a guy like that on the OL.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-18-2024

(11-16-2024, 12:12 PM)TheFan Wrote: They were just as trash of a franchise as the Bengals prior to Reid. Andy Reid and what he brought is the difference. 

Their last time in the conference championship was 1993 and last superbowl appearance was in the 1960s. Then Andy Reid happened. 


I'm not selling Reid short at all.....but I count 14 people in the Chiefs front office with scouting in their job title. How many does Cincinnati have again? 

They hadn't been to a conference championship game since 93.... Cincinnati hadn't won a solitary playoff game since 91 before the current staff. See how that works? The reason Cincinnati won is because they caught lightning in a bottle around Joe Burrow. Then the front office does what Cincinnati's front office does: shit the bed in the draft and FA. KC, on the other hand, has been getting their drafts right, and snagging a FA here and there to fill the gaps. Might have something to do with the ten more scouts they have, might not. 

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-18-2024

(11-17-2024, 01:36 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: for the Defense, Rex Ryan just said on gameday that other than Trey, they are all scout team level talent.  Said they aren't even NFL caliber players (other than Trey).  I for one think BJ Hill is a guy when healthy.  But Rex said this after breaking down the tape.


Wow.... that's rather eye opening....

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Whatever - 11-18-2024

(11-17-2024, 07:32 PM)Synric Wrote: Last year my 1 big ticket FA Target was Christian Wilkins. This year it's going to be Trey Smith. I love how he plays trying to bury guys every snap. Bengals are missing a guy like that on the OL.

Trey Smith worries me.  He'll probably reset the G market, but he gets away with a lot due to who he blocks for.  On the rare occasions he does start getting called, he kinda starts falling apart.

Still, a great FA G class with Smith and James Daniels at the top of it and guys like Tevon Jenkins, Evan Brown, Zeitler, and more bringing up the second wave.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-18-2024

(11-18-2024, 03:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: Trey Smith worries me.  He'll probably reset the G market, but he gets away with a lot due to who he blocks for.  On the rare occasions he does start getting called, he kinda starts falling apart.

Still, a great FA G class with Smith and James Daniels at the top of it and guys like Tevon Jenkins, Evan Brown, Zeitler, and more bringing up the second wave.


To think..... Cincy just let KZ walk. This front office is the absolute PITS.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-18-2024

(11-18-2024, 03:49 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: To think..... Cincy just let KZ walk. This front office is the absolute PITS.

Goodberry always brings up Zeitler in that everyone always focuses on letting Whit walk, but Zeitler was just as big of a mistake.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Destro - 11-18-2024

In the words of the illustrious Chad Johnson:
"Man, they all suck."

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - BrownAssClown - 11-18-2024

(11-18-2024, 03:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: To think..... Cincy just let KZ walk. This front office is the absolute PITS.

We always let talent walk out the door. We let Willie Anderson walk, Bates walk, Johnathan Joseph walk, Max Montoya walk and many more. It's the nature of the beast. We're going to let Tee walk next year. The trick is knowing who to let walk and who to keep. We can't keep them all, heck I even seen Eli Apple make a play against us last night. LOL.

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Destro - 11-18-2024

Chase after the game "Ask Zac. Ask the coaches. Don't ask me. I play football on the field. I don't call plays for us."

RE: Coaching...or Talent? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-18-2024