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RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - THE PISTONS - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 10:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The defense is in shambles though.

Is it worth paying two top-tier WRs and top-tier QB and all that money going into 3 of the OL spots while the Bengals have basically 0 pass rush and poor/inconsistent play at DB?

I trust them more to bring in FAs for defense over drafting and developing them.
That's been about the only success on defense they've had.
Although they haven't been great at that either recently.

To me, it's telling that signing free agents off the street and playing lowly drafted rookies has improved our defense somewhat.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - ERIC1 - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 12:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: they cant be saved. Let them live in fantasy land, I suppose

agree....agree agree..100%

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - THE PISTONS - 12-10-2024

Tee is a great talent, but he also misses a decent chunk of games. As he ages, I doubt he plays more.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Frank Booth - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 12:59 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: nice story..great fiction..this team does not need tee Higgins to win ball games..this team needs consistent and concerted effort on both sides of the ball...and more talent..but let me add my own lil story..Tee Higgins is going to make a zillion bucks next year..even more than  what his 20 million this year..tee Higgins is not suffering from down spirits..this team beat an even worse Dallas team last nite..barely..this team needs to change up at least one third of  the defense..not to mention two interior offensive line positions..and God only knows why Yoshi and Burton are failing so miserably..this talk about resigning Higgins is crazy talk..and I know that I will get clobbered on this Board..and I like Burrow.. but there are certain times in the game when we need a play and he fails..miserably..and his pocket awareness has gone from bad to just terrible..  Tee Higgins will be just fine..a multimillionaire many times over..Tee Higgins wherever he goes will miss one third of the season with injuries ( chronic hamstring) and continue to drop easy passes..have a great day Frank

I agree this team doesnt need tee to win, but having tee playing good will certainly help this team rest of season. He played terribly yesterday. NFL players on bad teams are known to pack it up towards the end of the year when on bad teams. Thats all im saying. I dont want tee here next year either

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Destro - 12-10-2024

We have all three and still suck. Need to take the league minimum and buy out another teams defense and O-line. Not a great unit, just an average unit. Anything better than the garbage men cosplaying football players we have now.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Bengalfan4life27c - 12-10-2024

Some of you are missing the point our number 2 receiver doesnt have to be our number 2 option. Draft a quality RB he can become the 2nd option after Chase. an ok number 2 like yoshi would be ok just because he is number 2 receiver doesn't mean he is the 2nd option.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Frank Booth - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 01:41 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Some of you are missing the point our number 2 receiver doesnt have to be our number 2 option. Draft a quality RB he can become the 2nd option after Chase. an ok number 2 like yoshi would be ok just because he is number 2 receiver doesn't mean he is the 2nd option.

if yoshi is going to be the 2nd receiver, youre gonna need a much better tight end than Gesicki

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 09:51 AM)Housh Wrote: There’s no one else to pay

Literally no one but Trey is worth paying one


You absolutely have the money to do it. It’s sad you have the money but you do.

This x100. 

I said last year the cornerstones were Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson, Reader, and Higgins. OBJ borderline. Everyone else is where you cut if necessary. 

We let Reader walk and spent 2 Day 2 picks and $12 mil in FA to replace him and failed. Replacing elite players, at ANY position, is hard. See Bates, Jessie. 

Most/many/all of the guys in the $7-$12 mil range on this team are either massively underperforming (Rankins, Stone, Hubbard), FA's (BJ Hill, Hilton), or not nearly as good as Higgins and easier to replace (Cappa, Karras, Pratt, even L. Wilson). Heck, Drew Sample makes $5 mil this year, and McPherson $4.5 next. 

Next year, we have $62 mil in cap space (not counting the picks and PS), with 42 guys signed. And that is with Burrow at $46 and Chase at $21.8. 

Restructuring Burrow (even without his consent) can save $20 mil, but it looks like he is willing to go max restructure, we could save more. We have space to sign Tee (or tag him again), extend Chase (the only hit next year will be the signing bonus money proration).

Burrow restructure +$20 mil, Tee tag -$25 mil, Chase proration -$9 mil = -$14 mil from $62 and hlee have $48. mil. Minus around $4 for the PA and say $10 for the picks and it is down to $34 mil. 

And that is without touching Rankins and Hubbard ($9.5 & $9.6 in cap savings), Stone ($6.5), Cappa ($8 mil), Pratt ($5.6), Moss ($3.5), etc. 

I am not saying we jettison ALL those guys, but some cuts can be made. Restructures. 

Keep Tee. Prioritize trenches in FA & draft (IOL, DT, DE). Secondary next (S & CB). Get a premium guy or two. We can bargain hint & fill in around the edges elsewhere (OT depth, slot WR, 2 way TE/Gesicki-Hudson back, LB speed, FG kicker).

Snap counts/PFF Grades, Contract 2025/Savings

Offense: 
QB1: Burrow: 844/92.0, $46.25/($57.0)
RB1: Chase Brown: 494/75.4, $1.1/$958k
WR1: Chase: 786/84.8, $21.8/$0
WR2: Higgins: 424/84.4, FA ($21.8)
WR3: Iosivas: 659/52.0, $1.07/$990k
TE1: D. Sample: 463/45.2, $2.75/$2.75
LT: Orlando Brown Jr.: 473/58.7, $15.3/($252k)
LG: Volson: 786/57.1, $1.26/$1.1
C: Karras: 848/59.7, $6.3/$4.8
RG: Cappa: 848/53.9, $10.25/$8.0
RT: Mims: 689/57.7, $3.5/($9.1)
---------------------
OT/OG: Ford: 483/54.4, FA ($1.35)
TE2/WR4: Gesicki: 380/68.1, FA ($2.5)
RB1(Inj): Moss: 297/58.2, $4.975/$3.475
TE2/TE3 (inj): All: 231/59.9, $1.16/$563k
RT1 (inj): Trent Brown: 139/65.2, FA
--------------
WR4/PS Irwin: 125/45.5, FA (PS)
WR5: Burton: 127/61.2, $1.3/$533k
TE4: Hudson: 110/65.0, FA ($1.15)
-------------------

Everyone else it under 40 snaps. OBJ has dropped since trying to play through the injury, good in pass pro, poor in run block. 

No one outside of Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Chase Brown, Gesicki, and OBJ (pre injury) & Trent Brown  have been better that mediocre. And some worse. 

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Frank Booth - 12-10-2024

a lot of people just love burrow so much that they take everything he says as gospel. Signing tee is a fool's move. He's injury proned. No team worth a damn pays 2 receivers elite money. Put it in the defense, get a new guard

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - pally - 12-10-2024



RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 09:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Post game comments from him and Chase were super interesting. Joe had always talked about a "plan" to keep them together. Wonder if the plan has always been a Burrow restructure. Wouldn't that be something.

The heck with it. Bring him back lmao!!! Hilarious

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - sandwedge - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 10:45 AM)TJ528 Wrote: This is my only issue with signing Tee, can he stay healthy.  When healthy, he's work $25M per year.  

I think due to his injuries, his value could potentially be dropping.  Who knows. 

If they re-sign Tee, IMO they move Trey Hendrickson for draft capital and sign free agent DL. 

Also, I also believe you'll see 85% new staff along with a new DC in 2025. 

I know we don't agree on much, but this! The entire defense coaching staff has to go. Lou's scheme is way too passive.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - TheLeonardLeap - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 09:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Post game comments from him and Chase were super interesting. Joe had always talked about a "plan" to keep them together. Wonder if the plan has always been a Burrow restructure. Wouldn't that be something.

That'd be the Bengals FO having to pay MORE guaranteed money out of pocket this offseason by turning ~$20m of Burrow's base salary into a signing bonus to make more space.

Also Chase is about to get $90m guaranteed at signing.
Also Hendrickson wants an extension that'll be another $45m guaranteed at signing.
A Tee contract would probably be another $45m guaranteed at signing.

So the Bengals FO would need to immediately spend/escrow $200m in signing bonuses and guarantees this offseason before even beginning to consider actually adding anyone to the current team to actually make it better than it's been over two straight playoff misses.

Don't see it happening.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - sandwedge - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 10:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

I don't know if I believe Joe is going to do something with his own contract, but more of he is going to stand on the table and tell why he believes they should bring Tee back.
Tee does affect the defense, but he had as many catches last night as he did drops. 

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 02:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I know we don't agree on much, but this! The entire defense coaching staff has to go. Lou's scheme is way too passive.

Yes sir Wedge. An entire new Defensive staff would be a great start to the Offseason. Extend Ja'Marr as soon as possible and see what 
we have to spend on FA's. Tee won't be as expensive with him missing so many games, I am always on the fence with bringing him back
but if Joe is adamant about it and we can make it happen without hurting our chances in adding to the trenches I am more than fine with
it. Just need 2 new Guards and to add to the DL while cutting Rankins waisted money.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - CKwi88 - 12-10-2024

I believe the young folk call this "copium".

Barring another tag (if that's even possible". Tee will be playing elsewhere next year. A team will certainly throw too much money at him for the Bengals to keep him.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 12-10-2024

PFF on D:

Player: Snaps/Grade, Contract 2025
DE1: Hendrickson: 616/85.9, $18.67/$16.0
DT/NT: BJ Hill: 499/66.8, FA ($10.8)
DT: Rankins: 288/55.3, $11.5/$9.5
DE2: Hubbard: 513/59.4, $11.6/$9.6
LB1: L. Wilson (inj): 745/72.3, $8.9/$1.9
LB2: Pratt: 837/63.8, $7.9/$5.6
CB1: CTB: 786/62.3, $1.9/$1.5
CB2: D. Hill (inj): 264/68.2, $3.7/$0
CB3: Hilton: 541/65.6, FA ($7.45)
SS: Bell: 650/58.2, FA ($1.2)
FS: Stone: 858/49.4, $7.975/$6.475
------------
CB4: Turner II (inj): 507/67.8, $1.7/$940k
DT: Jenkins: 368/51.6, $1.8/($2.3)
DE: Ossai: 385/55.7, FA ($1.65)
LB3: ADG: 279/53.4, FA ($2.5)
CB5: Newton: 251/56.0, $1.04/$791k
DE4: Murphy: 240/50.9, $3.4/($4.0)
SS2: Battle: 238/54.2, $1.45/$1.015
DT4: Tufele: 196/41.2, FA ($1.055)
NT: Jackson: 158/35.3, $1.27/$600k
DT6 (Raiders): Carter: 151/39.9, with Raiders
------------------

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Luvnit2 - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 02:38 PM)pally Wrote:

My sig says how I feel about keeping Tee. But this is telling. Joe says he is involved. Knowing he is involved and him saying he is "confident" they sign Tee tells me he knows how it can be done. We have guys we can cut in 2025 and save cap dollars to help rebuild the defense. I have a hunch we also would go heavy on defense if we do keep Tee.

One thing I do see is our offense gets better each week with Chase Brown and Ford has shown and ability to backup OT and OG once Orlando Brown is healthy. Mims is learning, but I have confidence he will be better in 2026.

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 03:03 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I believe the young folk call this "copium".

Barring another tag (if that's even possible". Tee will be playing elsewhere next year. A team will certainly throw too much money at him for the Bengals to keep him.

Look, where he ends up, or what the FO does is anyone's guess. 

But the idea that we cannot pay him is total BS. Completely factually untrue. Utter malarkey. 

We could have paid Reader as well. Rankins is double his cap hit this year 

RE: Burrow "confident" Bengals can re-sign Higgins - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 12-10-2024

(12-10-2024, 03:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My sig says how I feel about keeping Tee. But this is telling. Joe says he is involved. Knowing he is involved and him saying he is "confident" they sign Tee tells me he knows how it can be done. We have guys we can cut in 2025 and save cap dollars to help rebuild the defense. I have a hunch we also would go heavy on defense if we do keep Tee.

One thing I do see is our offense gets better each week with Chase Brown and Ford has shown and ability to backup OT and OG once Orlando Brown is healthy. Mims is learning, but I have confidence he will be better in 2026.

Burton not growing into at least an explosive backup for us makes me think it is possible we bring back Tee along with Joe's confidence.

When Tee DOES play, he brings another element even if he was dropping balls last night. He is injured a lot and that should drive his price down.