(10-13-2015, 10:40 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That I can agree with.  Hope to see more of it.  Loved the spike after the TD last week.  

(10-13-2015, 10:40 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Except that different QBs have had different career paths throughout the years, and it was absolutely impossible to directly say that Andy would 100% perform like he is in 2015.

That's why people say stuff like "new Andy". We know he isn't an entirely new being, he's just playing very differently in many ways this year. I don't think it's an insult but you seem to be taking it that way. His decision making, pocket awareness, and his accuracy on every throw in the book are all so much better in 2015 than in the past. He has never looked this good consistently, and it's not insulting to bring that up.

(10-13-2015, 10:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: The biggest change in Dalton is his pocket presence. He's been able to throw the ball this well when he has a clean pocket. If you go back and look at the games in 2013 in his bad games he normally has 3+ sacks. Now he's able to create a little more time for himself, so he can throw it better down the field. Another big thing that's helping Dalton is that his receivers actually have experience now. In 2013 Green and Gresham were his only experienced receivers. It was everyone else first year pretty much. The receivers are making few mistakes now. Those two things are why he's playing so good this year.

(10-13-2015, 10:40 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Except that different QBs have had different career paths throughout the years, and it was absolutely impossible to directly say that Andy would 100% perform like he is in 2015.

That's why people say stuff like "new Andy". We know he isn't an entirely new being, he's just playing very differently in many ways this year. I don't think it's an insult but you seem to be taking it that way. His decision making, pocket awareness, and his accuracy on every throw in the book are all so much better in 2015 than in the past. He has never looked this good consistently, and it's not insulting to bring that up.

(10-13-2015, 10:51 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The pocket presence is part of the mental thing. He's not panicking back there and he's keeping his head in the game. It's quite noticeable. You cannot count on a clean pocket, but still have to get the job done regardless. He's doing that now.

(10-13-2015, 11:02 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Did anyone expect Luck to perform the way he has so far this year?  Are people calling him "Bad Andrew"?  Of course not.  Dalton is in his 5th year.  He isn't a "new" QB.  He's simply an experienced QB with a great supporting cast.  

He would only be "new" to someone who hasn't been paying any attention at all.  Granted he's added some new dimensions to his game, but it's not like he's been transformed into a guy I don't recognize.  Maybe I'm just a little defensive, but it's not like the guy hasn't had a history of being belittled.

(10-13-2015, 10:21 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I think the "new" part of Dalton is mental.  I just saw a clip on SI where Peter King said players are telling him that Dalton is a true leader this year, that he was much more "passive" in previous years.  You can see it on his face on game days.  Remember when something used to go wrong and he would get that "aw shucks" look on his face and smile?  That is gone, I have literally not seen it a single time this year.  Changing the plays at the line, talking to the offense on the sidelines, the decision making, his demeanor during the game.  I personally think he has taken a big step this year.

(10-13-2015, 11:10 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Some what?

I can't speak for everybody, but I honestly don't mean it as an insult to Andy when I say "new Andy". I'm just bringing up the fact that he looks quite different this year than he has previously. He has never, ever, ever dropped dimes like this before. His passes have been a thing of beauty and it's like his accuracy isn't affected by being on the run or pressured as it had in the past. That's not even getting into what everyone else is talking about like the intensity and pocket awareness. I've seen Andy attempt all of these throws, but I've never seen him consistently hitting all of them as if he was a future Hall of Famer like he has in 2015. He's putting every throw exactly where it needs to be, and that's insane for a QB to do it at the rate Andy has been this season.

Call him "new Andy", "Andy with new dimensions", or whatever else, I love how he's playing right now.

(10-13-2015, 10:46 AM)Wyche Wrote: To me, all of that is natural progression....as I've said, the "new" part is the intangibles of his game that he has ramped up.

(10-13-2015, 11:18 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You love to call others out so it is your turn to fess up.

You stated numerous times in the past AD had peaked. You refused to accept our analysis of maybe a 3 or year QB has room to grow. You questioned constantly making statements such as (not exact words):

How much time do we give him before we move on? Some of us pointed out the injury issues in 2014 to AJ, MJ and Eifert but you decided to ignore the facts his cast was depleted.

I am glad you are happy now, I understand why you felt he may have peaked (did not agree), but now to act as though you were in his camp and had confidence he would progress is a huge stretch to those who read your posts about AD on the other board.

(10-13-2015, 11:25 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, but how many times does that natural progression actually happen with a QB? Many, many QBs have fallen by the wayside long before this progression could take place. Some up and quit for not being about to catch up with the speed of the game. Some implode like Ryan Leaf. Some just never progress.

Just from Dalton's draft class: Locker, Ponder and Gabbert all started for their teams and none progressed much. Kaepernick had some success but really has been on a downward slide the last two years. Forget the coaching change this year, he just wasn't that good last year. Tyrod Talyor also came out that year and has finally progressed enough to start, but really, how long is a scrambling QB going to make it in this league without being able to throw consistently from the pocket?

Only Dalton and Newton from that year have developed in to stable starters. Both are undefeated this year so far.

From 2012 RGIII did the reverse progression from starting QB to scout team safety. Tannehill progressed every year until this year when the whole team imploded. Weeden never progressed much, if at all. Luck carried Indy for 3 years, but now injured and whole team has slid this year. We'll have to see what happens in Indy, but Luck came in at a much higher level than anyone in years.

(10-13-2015, 10:36 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: "New"?  When did it become "new" for a young QB to gain more confidence the more experience they get?  I just find the modifiers "New", "Good", "Bad", etc.  sort of patronizing.  To me the dude is simply a young QB coming into his own.  No different than the career trajectories of other QBs in the league. 

(10-13-2015, 11:34 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is "new" if it is something he has not demonstrated in the past.  I'm not trying to argue with you, but he is not that young... this is his fifth year in the league, it's not like 2014 was his rookie season.  It is also not at all patronizing to say that he is displaying new characteristics, especially when it is a positive.

I compliment him and you get upset by it??

(10-13-2015, 11:28 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: The Colts have won twice since Luck has gone down.  It helps when almost half of your games every year comes against the Titans, Jaguars, and Texans.  

(10-13-2015, 11:25 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, but how many times does that natural progression actually happen with a QB? Many, many QBs have fallen by the wayside long before this progression could take place. Some up and quit for not being about to catch up with the speed of the game. Some implode like Ryan Leaf. Some just never progress.

Just from Dalton's draft class: Locker, Ponder and Gabbert all started for their teams and none progressed much. Kaepernick had some success but really has been on a downward slide the last two years. Forget the coaching change this year, he just wasn't that good last year. Tyrod Talyor also came out that year and has finally progressed enough to start, but really, how long is a scrambling QB going to make it in this league without being able to throw consistently from the pocket?

Only Dalton and Newton from that year have developed in to stable starters. Both are undefeated this year so far.

From 2012 RGIII did the reverse progression from starting QB to scout team safety. Tannehill progressed every year until this year when the whole team imploded. Weeden never progressed much, if at all. Luck carried Indy for 3 years, but now injured and whole team has slid this year. We'll have to see what happens in Indy, but Luck came in at a much higher level than anyone in years.

(10-13-2015, 11:34 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is "new" if it is something he has not demonstrated in the past.  I'm not trying to argue with you, but he is not that young... this is his fifth year in the league, it's not like 2014 was his rookie season.  It is also not at all patronizing to say that he is displaying new characteristics, especially when it is a positive.

I compliment him and you get upset by it??

(10-13-2015, 11:41 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Yes, it does help that they play in the AFC South, but you're really going to try to argue that Luck has not been in a league of his own when it comes to quarterbacks entering the NFL over the last few years?  Most people said he was the most NFL ready quarterback since Manning.  He has won in the playoffs, been to the AFC Championship Game, and has done so with a pretty miserable running game and defense.

You don't have to put others down while attempting to defend Dalton.

(10-13-2015, 11:42 AM)Wyche Wrote: That's true.....but you also have guys like Rodgers or Brady (and IN NO WAY, SHAPE, FORM, or FASHION comparing Andy to them) who get the luxury of sitting a year or three behind an established vet to learn and grow.  Andy didn't get that luxury, and neither did the others you mentioned.....aside from, ironically...CK.  The thing is, I actually thought he would wind up ok because of the success out of the gate and the work ethic he is known for.  He's got a lot of football smarts too, and that pays dividends with a young QB.  I'd be lying if I thought he could be as good as he's shown thus far this season, but I have always felt he would be a very solid, dare I say, Ken Anderson type of QB.  I always felt he just needed more seasoning.....which would lead to better vision and pocket presence.  The improvement of his accuracy and velocity added to this newfound fire are just icing on the cake.

(10-13-2015, 11:40 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: "New Andy" implies he is an entirely "new" QB.  He is not.  

Is Andrew Luck now a "new" QB since he is playing like shit?  

(10-13-2015, 11:34 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is "new" if it is something he has not demonstrated in the past.  I'm not trying to argue with you, but he is not that young... this is his fifth year in the league, it's not like 2014 was his rookie season.  It is also not at all patronizing to say that he is displaying new characteristics, especially when it is a positive.

I compliment him and you get upset by it??