(11-10-2017, 11:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Mike Brown overthrows receivers and Andy Dalton refuses to hire NFL-caliber coaches and/or a GM and we all wear hats on our feet and hamburgers eat people.

(11-10-2017, 09:28 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: yea ownership throws the ball out of bounds and 3 feet over receivers heads.

(11-10-2017, 09:25 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: This is where your so wrong.  Ever notice you never hear about New England having Oline issues that's because Tom Brady is really good and his ability masks it.  Every year the excuses change for Dalton. Not hearing many using Lazor as an excuse even though the offense is still struggling.  Guess Dalton supporters used zampese so much that it just wouldn't look right . Before it was oline and Zampese now its just the oline.  You guys are a joke sorry but its ridiculous.

(11-10-2017, 09:14 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Both of these are accurate. Well done!! 

(11-10-2017, 09:18 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: do you watch the games or do you and Shake just look at stats?  Really starting to wonder?  Or its reached the point where you've defended so long AD  that you'll come up with whatever you can to defend AD.  

(11-10-2017, 10:07 PM)Mer Wrote: Why do people bring up pre draft analysis? Dalton is a 6+ year vet. Is it possible he's different now? Better or worse?

(11-11-2017, 12:40 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: What’s your “fix” for the Cincinnati offense then?

(11-10-2017, 09:18 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: do you watch the games or do you and Shake just look at stats?  Really starting to wonder?  Or its reached the point where you've defended so long AD  that you'll come up with whatever you can to defend AD.  

(11-11-2017, 12:27 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: That was good!

(11-11-2017, 02:24 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Stats get posted because they're facts. Facts that often refute biased and subjective opinions of what people claim to see. Frankly, people are often full of crap or hold Dalton to unrealistic standards based on Madden or watching ESPN highlights of Rodgers and Brady.

Just for example, people often say Dalton sucks throwing deep. If you watch other non-Bengals games and focus on QB play, you'll see TONS of missed deep balls. It's a low percentage play...otherwise, teams would throw deep 10-20 times every game. 

If you look at deep ball percentages, they're typically around 33% give or take. A couple QBs per year might get as high as 50%...which is exceptional. Some might fall as low as say 17%. Check out Big Ben's deep ball % this year if you want a laugh.

Dalton is typically middle of the pack in deep ball % and rating, yet some think he's awful because he doesn't hit 60% of them, or some of them go out of bounds...as if the incompletion is somehow worse for it.

If you watch other QBs, they miss deep just as badly. Overthrowing or underthrowing. Missing out of bounds. Throwing picks. It's not an Andy thing...It's a deep ball thing. It's as if anti-Andy guys don't see other good QBs make bad throws, or notice how often it happens.

So yeah, it's not that pro-Andy guys think he's perfect. We see the bad throws. We just realize that good QBs can and do make bad throws. We also realize that Andy is surrounded by shit right now, so it's hard to judge him...not that he's having a terrible season.

(11-11-2017, 01:48 AM)Joelist Wrote: This nonsense makes me wonder if one of the anti-Andy posters used to be Hammerthis on the old boards...

And unfortunately, those posters are in the process of ruining this forum like they did the old one by spamming their stuff all over the place - it made the old forum almost unreadable. Hopefully it is not allowed to do so here.

(11-11-2017, 01:21 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: You and the OP weirdly respond, act and even type in the same way...also, the only person to agree with him...just saying.


You've never read my post(s) before then. I've time and time again provided in depth analysis from my years of playing, outside of statistics but with actual Football knowledge. No, I've never, EVER claimed to be something I wasn't, and I don't always believe stats tell the true story. Rarely do I use them, and in fact, I haven't really used a single stat in this thread, outside of using several other analysis thoughts on the players...because at the end of the day, isn't that what we are doing now!?


You're 100% correct. Players grow, adapt and change. That being said, I don't see a single post that I've done in this thread where I've sighted a draft analysis that wasn't incorrect to what we are seeing now. Strengths/weaknesses have aligned to what we have seen from these QBs.

Evaluating players is entirely subjective. 


He seems to be spearheading the idea with AJM. Which, I don't believe to be the fix.

As I've stated over, over and over, to the boy I've been blue in the face. I've received dozens of rep points for simply stating that games are WON and LOSS in the trenches. Football is made with the fat guys up front, both sides of the ball dictate the game going forward. If you have 5 seconds to pass the ball. You're going to win football games. If you can create a crease, and get 5 to 8 yards a play, you're going to win games. IF you can rush four, successfully, you're going to win football games. Period. Games are won and loss with line play (I'll throw in Houston's previous loss, when they traded away a pro bowl tackle, who was replaced...who eventually gave up a strip sack).


When you have a team with THREE pretty good to above average running backs, and you can't even muster more than 50 yards on a team that is DEAD LAST in run defense...You have issues. Pointing at Dalton, and blaming him is the short sighted issue. 

(11-09-2017, 06:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: The whole accuracy comment and how Joe Goodberry is the end all be all on this and the fact you said you don't care about stats really throws me off. I'm guessing completion percentage means nothing. I know this is a waste of my time, but here we go.

Andy Dalton career completion percentage - 62.7%. Using only 2011-2017 here are some other QBs (no, I didn't look up everyone. I just tried to keep it recent)

Andrew Luck - 59.2%
Cam Newton - 58.8%
Joe Flacco - 61.5%
Eli Manning - 61.4%
Jameis Winston - 60.0%
Blake Bortles - 58.9%
Carson Wentz - 61.8%
Derek Carr - 61.5%
Alex Smith - 62.3%
Matthew Stafford - 61.5%
Jared Goff - 57.7%
Carson Palmer - 62%
Marcus Mariota - 62%
Brian Hoyer - 59.3%
DeShone Kizer - 52.1%
CJ Beathard - 50.9%
Trevor Siemian - 60.2%
Brock Osweiler - 59.4%
Jacoby Brissett - 61.2%
Josh McCown - 62.6%
Jay Cutler - 62.6%

While I agree completion percentage obviously doesn't equal top QB. I'm just saying of these guys are at or below Dalton. If Dalton is inaccurate because of your eye test and Goodberry's word, does that make all of this other QBs inaccurate as well? I just want to see if this is strictly a Dalton thing or if we're going to apply it to everyone.

(11-09-2017, 05:21 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Oh, another thread talking about 'issues' but really is a thread disguised so we can ***** about Dalton some more.

(11-09-2017, 04:12 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Ownership , Coaching , and yeah QB also . Im especially frustrated with Coaching and Qb i want them both to just go away.

Judging the o line talent , he's the coach he could replace Bodine with someone but he won't, he could switch things up some how some way.

Furthermore like Dave Lapham said, the jags had 3/5 o lineman that were undrafted free agents,and same goes for Pitt. And if I'm not mistaken the Pats have done that too. I always hear "we got to draft o lineman 1st ,2nd and 3rd round to make things right. Not really!! You need coaches to teach proper technique ,and judge talent correctly and play the right guys and be willing to change things up .

(11-09-2017, 10:51 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We could put Tom Brady behind the Cincinnati offensive line and he would look terrible.

(11-11-2017, 06:15 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: 1. I'm not big on stats,because in football it doesn't tell the whole story. 2. When you are a starter in the national football league you will accumulate some stats over time . 3. I looked up some I think last year where,Tony Romo and Ryan tannahill and some others had nice stat years. But it doesn't tell the whole story. Here's one I looked up being funny in my group ,because I have people in my group that's die hard Dalton supporters and they always bring up the STATS. 4. Here's one this year Alex Smith is #1 in qb rating ahead of #2 tom Brady. 5.  Now who would you bet on kc vs the pats? I would think Brady would be the favorite  Alex Smith has 0 rings. 6. I looked up 2013 qb rating because 2013 was a good year for us and Dalton during the regular season. Josh MCCOWN was #1 Lol Jay Cutler was #4 , Dalton was like #19. Yes I would say Dalton is better then those two,but still isn't good enough to really win. Nick foles was on that list in the top ten and I don't even think he's starting anymore. 

7. Now that's just qb rating because I do hear qb rating a lot when it comes to Dalton after his decent games that turn into wins. Now if you want to get into passing yards and attempts , that gets more complicated, because it can just be the scheme and the play calling,or if your team is down and have to come back . Or you can pick up garbage time stats .it all plays together. This is why I'm usually not a stat person. But people go by it like it's the bible of sports. Baseball is more of a stat line game then football to me with the batting averages. 

8. Furthermore about Daltons deep ball ,has he connected deep balls in his time of course. But there is times he sucks at it like this season just last game he sailed,not just one,but they tried 3 times going deep,all 3 were overthrown. Beginning of the season he missed Cody core twice in the same game ,then they took Cody core out for Daltons short comings. 

9. Do I think McCarron is the answer , I don't know I'm not saying he is for sure he has a slower release and holds the ball longer then Dalton and he's better at footwork and scanning but he don't throw as fast as Andy and when I watched him last time he plays it to safe sometimes and holds it. Also not as mobile as Andy. I would like to see him 2-3 games and how things would look with this certain team compared to Andy. 

Like I said to you before, Andy's strengths are fast get the ball out quick passes ,predetermined throws like the greenbay game they came out with that game plan. But every oc we have had asks him to do his weakness and that's drop back and scan and be a true pocket passer. The past two games they put him under center and are using playaction and wanting him to sit back and make reads. This isn't his strong suit I'm telling you. That's more aj McCarron game.plus the accuracy on the long ball has not been there for Dalton this year. His accuracy has been pretty poor this year.

(11-11-2017, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You could put Tom Brady behind a High School offensive line and he would not look terrible. 

The above is a comparison that has been made far too many times in this forum. There are a good many current QBs that would do just fine behind this oline. Russell Wilson has played behind terrible protection and no rushing game and is having a fine season. Aaron Rodgers was getting killed (got killed) and had a WR as a RB. Kirk Cousins has no oline or WRs and his RB is someone called Fat Rob. Hell even Josh McCown with absolutely nothing in NYJ currently has a passer rating in the high 90s.

(11-11-2017, 12:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is a comparison that has been made far too often in this forum. Wilson has been sacked once every 14.6 attempts. Dalton has been sacked once every 9.8 attempts. Huge difference. If you average out those rates to 500 attempts, Wilson would be sacked 34 times and Dalton 51 times. Dalton is pressured/sacked at a far higher rate.

The Seahawks average 30 more rush yards per game and their YPC is a respectable 3.8, compared to a dismal 3.1 for the Bengals.

(11-11-2017, 06:55 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: That's actually a pretty sad looking QB list. Most of whom are replaceable on their current teams.