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+--- Thread: RG Jonathan Cooper (/thread-16849.html)
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - SunsetBengal - 09-03-2018
(09-03-2018, 03:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It all goes back to Mike Brown as usual. We've always had an issue with keeping some guys too long.
Marvin Lewis
Bob Bratkowski
Paul Alexander
Kyle Cook
Russell Bodine
Cedric Ogbuehi
We've had some great teams. Very talented at most areas, but some of these guys have been anchors that have really held us back from even greater success.
Say what you will about Kyle Cook, but when he first took over for Eric Guichuic, we thought the dude was superman. It wasn't until after he got injured, and never regained his previous form, that he was here too long. Only to be replaced with the impeccable Russel Bodine.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Shake n Blake - 09-03-2018
(09-03-2018, 03:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Say what you will about Kyle Cook, but when he first took over for Eric Guichuic, we thought the dude was superman. It wasn't until after he got injured, and never regained his previous form, that he was here too long. Only to be replaced with the impeccable Russel Bodine.
It's like comparing diarrhea to a normal turd. The normal turd looks better by comparison.
Edit: I guess a better comparison would be a 1988 Corolla (Cook) vs a Geo Metro up on blocks (Ghiaciuc).
Then again, I don't think I should put block and Ghiaciuc in the same sentence.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Joelist - 09-03-2018
Remember Ghiacuc and Bodine have something in common - both were lobbied for hard by Piano Man.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - fredtoast - 09-04-2018
(09-03-2018, 03:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's like comparing diarrhea to a normal turd. The normal turd looks better by comparison.
Maybe to the uneducated eye, but experts like Pat Kirwan considered Cook a Pro Bowl level players before he was injured. I think he only allowed 6 pressure in his first three years as a starter.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - BoomerFan - 09-04-2018
(09-03-2018, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Other teams are not releasing players better than what we have.
People here claimed Bodine should not even be a back up in the NFL, and last i checked he was in line to start for the Bills.
Regarding who other teams release, that would seem to be an oversimplification. Sometimes you release a player because they don't fit what you are trying to accomplish, don't have the right chemistry with the rest of their teams, aren't working as hard as you like, or are not understanding the scheme. Now some of those might still be reasons not to pick someone up though, sometimes after getting cut those players might be more motivated to make it work with their next opportunity.
And as for the Bills, I thought the consensus is they have one of the worst lines in the NFL? Part of that was our DL making them look bad but even past that Bills fans, commentators, and fans of other teams all have said Josh Allen shouldn't start behind their current line because it would be bad for him. That said, I would think Bodine would be a pretty good backup. Heck, maybe he can even make it work as a starter but I haven't seen evidence of that yet. He could benefit from the new environment but he would not be an example like the ones I suggested above -- it wasn't chemistry he just had poor blocking technique which seems less likely to change.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - grampahol - 09-04-2018
Golly! Maybe Bonine will get cut by Buffalo and we can. ..... Nope! I'm not even gonna go there . Mikey is probably already planning that surprise signing as we sit here with regret ..
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - CJD - 09-04-2018
First round Offensive Guards are an interesting case. Because, if you're drafting an offensive guard in the first round, you're basically expecting them to be an all pro or pro bowl type player. Otherwise, you could just draft an offensive tackle and convert them to offensive guard (since the position is widely considered easier than tackle in virtually every way).
I mean, you can see that even on our team, with 2 undrafted free agents, a 4th round pick and a 5th round pick occupying our guard depth.
I don't know if that's conceptually accurate, but that's the perception around the league.
So whenever you see a first round guard who ends up being a bust (or not being a pro bowler), it makes you wonder just how below the curve they actually are. If an offensive lineman wasn't even good enough to justify playing him at tackle in college, how could he make a positive impact on a team in the NFL at all?
That seems unfair to guards, especially since SOMEONE has to play the position in college, after all. So it's unfortunate when you see a player like Cooper or Warmack, who were actually considered not only good enough to be drafted in the top 10, but also drafted in the top 10 as guards, end up being busts.
I wish Cooper the best, but I see no reason why he'd be an upgrade to this team. He seems to have been given multiple chances and hasn't stuck anywhere. I know we as Bengals fans have grown accustomed to "salvaging" other teams' busts (see Pacman and Nelson as recent examples), but I just don't think this one would work out.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Shake n Blake - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 09:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe to the uneducated eye, but experts like Pat Kirwan considered Cook a Pro Bowl level players before he was injured. I think he only allowed 6 pressure in his first three years as a starter.
Another condescending post from you. Disregarded.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - sandwedge - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 09:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe to the uneducated eye, but experts like Pat Kirwan considered Cook a Pro Bowl level players before he was injured. I think he only allowed 6 pressure in his first three years as a starter.
What makes Kirwan an expert?
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - fredtoast - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 11:53 AM)sandwedge Wrote: What makes Kirwan an expert?
10 years as an NFL scout.
What makes you an expert?
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Sled21 - 09-04-2018
People tend to remember players by how they play in their last few years here. Cook suffered his injury and was never the same. He held his starting position down because he was a smart center. But there is no doubt, before he was injured the man was a stud center.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Shake n Blake - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 12:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People tend to remember players by how they play in their last few years here. Cook suffered his injury and was never the same. He held his starting position down because he was a smart center. But there is no doubt, before he was injured the man was a stud center.
Like Chad Johnson?
Rich Braham was a stud. Cook was not a stud. Most of us saw the drop off when Braham was done. Cook was solid at first, then terrible.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Go Cards - 09-04-2018
(09-03-2018, 02:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: And to think, we were stuck with that guy for 4 entire years. This team makes a lot of smart moves, but then is also capable of being stubborn on horrible players.
Especially with ones that are their guys, high draft picks or in this case someone they traded up to get.
Do not like admitting they were wrong for some reason.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Go Cards - 09-04-2018
(09-03-2018, 03:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's like comparing diarrhea to a normal turd. The normal turd looks better by comparison.
Edit: I guess a better comparison would be a 1988 Corolla (Cook) vs a Geo Metro up on blocks (Ghiaciuc).
Then again, I don't think I should put block and Ghiaciuc in the same sentence.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Go Cards - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 11:29 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Another condescending post from you. Disregarded.
Just someone abandoning ship after putting foot in mouth with Bodine is actually good comment.
Deflection.
RG Jonathan Cooper - ochocincos - 09-04-2018
Depth chart just released. Redmond listed as starter at RG. At this point, I don’t see Bengals getting anyone else barring injury. Hoping Redmond cuts down on penalties and takes a step forward this year. The right side will suffer greatly if he and Hart both struggle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Shake n Blake - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 01:19 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Just someone abandoning ship after putting foot in mouth with Bodine is actually good comment.
Deflection.
Kind of hard to put a positive spin on that one.
PFF says he was terrible
Sacks and pressures were terrible
He goes to a team that loves the Bengals and flops hard (so did Mac btw)
He's healthy, so can't blame injury
He was hand selected by Paul Alexander
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Joelist - 09-04-2018
We thought well of Cook at first because the comparison was to Ghiacuc, arguably the worst Center in football for a couple of years. Once the immediate memory of Ghiacuc faded we could see Cook was average at best. Compared to Bodine of course Cook was a Hall of Famer.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - Socal Bengals fan - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 09:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe to the uneducated eye, but experts like Pat Kirwan considered Cook a Pro Bowl level players before he was injured. I think he only allowed 6 pressure in his first three years as a starter.
Cook was horrible. He had maybe one decent season. Only reason he was here that long was because he was best friends with Carson Palmer. No one ever thought cook was any good. Add Geathers, MJ, Thornton, Rey Mays as players that were here three years too long.
RE: RG Jonathan Cooper - fredtoast - 09-04-2018
(09-04-2018, 01:45 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: No one ever thought cook was any good.
Actually there were a few experts who thought Cook was very good. Pat Kirwan picked him as a "Pro Bowl Snub" one year. Can't find that article right now but here is another one from 2009
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81560288/article/watch-out-for-more-wildcat-radar-defense-in-upcoming-playoffs
Who has the best inside three?
I had the chance to talk with an NFL line coach about the inside three, better known as the guards and centers on the offensive line, particularly in regard to the teams headed to the playoffs.
After looking at all the teams that have already clinched playoff spots, as well as those teams that could potentially fill out the playoff field, it came down to the Bengals in the AFC
The Bengals have a remarkable story with their inside three, which consists of two street free agents -- Evan Mathis, Kyle Cook -- along with a veteran in Bobbie Williams. If you watched the running game, you will see why they were rated so high this season.
and this from 2011
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8205178d/article/protect-and-serve-nfls-best-olinemen-come-in-all-forms
There are a number of young O-linemen close to the top 25, and by this time next year they should make the list. Keep an eye on Cincinnati's Kyle Cook