+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: We might need to start trading star players... (/thread-18199.html)
Let's face the facts - hotweales - 11-28-2018
Even as diehard fans we have to face the facts!
Every football team in the NFL should try to build for a Super Bowl run. (Not sure that is Brown's objective)
We are 3 to 4 years from being a Super Bowl contender
John Gruden, while thought to be crazy moving his good players, understands they are in same boat. So he is purging the good assets the team has for draft picks that can be groomed for that run. This is the perfect year to build defense. Draft will be loaded with good defenders. QB is weak in this draft and RB, WR is okay, but not where the defenders are.
Come draft, we should move Geno, Dunlap, Kirkpatrick, Burfict, Gio, AJ and Andy if any takers and load up on picks.
Andy is not better that someone we could get off the scrap heap
Build around Mixon, Jackson, Bates, Hubbard and Price ( I know he has mixed reviews)
Get any money off the books we can for this run and be ready to add pieces as needed.
It would be painful, but the Bengals can not win a Super Bowl as constructed.
RE: Let's face the facts - Au165 - 11-28-2018
I feel like this could be in one of about five first page threads. We get it, everyone wants us to trade like it's Madden. Realistically you aren't getting back in trades what you think you are for those guys. 30 year olds on big money contracts don't bring in a whole lot in the trade market. What do you sign in FA? close to 30 year olds that want big money. You are basically going to trade one group of older highly paid guys for another. You can build through the draft with a bunch of 3rd and 4th rounders you haul in from that, but it's basically a crap shoot.
RE: Let's face the facts - McC - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)hotweales Wrote: Even as diehard fans we have to face the facts!
Every football team in the NFL should try to build for a Super Bowl run. (Not sure that is Brown's objective)
We are 3 to 4 years from being a Super Bowl contender
John Gruden, while thought to be crazy moving his good players, understands they are in same boat. So he is purging the good assets the team has for draft picks that can be groomed for that run. This is the perfect year to build defense. Draft will be loaded with good defenders. QB is weak in this draft and RB, WR is okay, but not where the defenders are.
Come draft, we should move Geno, Dunlap, Kirkpatrick, Burfict, Gio, AJ and Andy if any takers and load up on picks.
Andy is not better that someone we could get off the scrap heap
Build around Mixon, Jackson, Bates, Hubbard and Price ( I know he has mixed reviews)
Get any money off the books we can for this run and be ready to add pieces as needed.
It would be painful, but the Bengals can not win a Super Bowl as constructed.
There is much wisdom in your words(sorry, watched Josey Wales too many times), but this all goes against every instinct Mike has and flies right in the face of his enormous fear of change.
RE: Let's face the facts - Atomic Orange - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)hotweales Wrote: It would be painful, but the Bengals can not win a Super Bowl as constructed.
I suppose they have been constructed many different ways since Merv has been here. WHO..oh WHO - is going to coach the next glorious crop?
Because with Pats staff we already have rings and trophies and stuff. Even with that "scrap heap" (
) QB!
RE: Let's face the facts - THE PISTONS - 11-28-2018
IF we traded all of our good players and replaced them with draft picks...we seriously could go 0-16 like the Browns did. That's EXACTLY what they did.
And they had way more scouts than us.
Look, most years we don't draft a single guy that can start at a high quality level on day 1. Trade Geno and Dunlap who grade out in the 80's on PFF and we'd likely get rookies who grade in the 50's or 60's at best.
That is a recipe for 0-16.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - THE PISTONS - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:04 PM)samhain Wrote: Yep. People here who maybe don't attend games might not have the best picture. If you're on this forum, you're probably pretty serious about this team. You'll be as exited about a rebuild year as a potential playoff year, b/c you get to watch football again.
Not so much for casual fans. Some people just don't give a shit, and why should they? Teams need casual fans to buy tickets and merchandise. Not just diehards and over-invested nutbags like us. They've lost that big time after Marvin returned.
The hardcore fanbase largely re-invested before the season, but there aren't that many of us, and it's likely not enough to keep a stadium filled.
Rebuilding makes me sad. We had a Top 5 roster several years ago...and we just missed opportunities. We should have signed that coverage LB or upgraded at Center.
Instead of touting playoff runs, we get to say...yeah we made the playoffs!
RE: Let's face the facts - Atomic Orange - 11-28-2018
We need to petition the Lord with Prayer that:
A: Marvin finally gets fired - I don't even want the dude upstairs anymore. Gone get out
B. Hue doesn't take over for Marvin
C. I can't say but it has to do with Mikey
Hire a real coach that has balls.
Get Linebackers and a guy that can coach them
Spend a couple million more in FA for that Oline, Katie. And then hire a guy that can coach them.
Draft well
Get new uniforms
Roll with it another year or so before fire sale.
RE: Let's face the facts - THE PISTONS - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:56 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: We need to petition the Lord with Prayer that:
A: Marvin finally gets fired - I don't even want the dude upstairs anymore. Gone get out
B. Hue doesn't take over for Marvin
C. I can't say but it has to do with Mikey
Hire a real coach that has balls.
Get Linebackers and a guy that can coach them
Spend a couple million more in FA for that Oline, Katie. And then hire a guy that can coach them.
Draft well
Get new uniforms
Roll with it another year or so before fire sale.
So that's the thing. IF the team was committed to drafting offensive line or linebacker or TE in the 1st and 2nd Round and then filling the remaining 3-4 positions of need in free agency...then you could have a quick turnaround.
Plus, bring in coaches with modern schemes that work in the current NFL.
I fear we won't though.
RE: Let's face the facts - fredtoast - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)hotweales Wrote: Andy is not better that someone we could get off the scrap heap
Yes he is.
RE: Let's face the facts - bengaltruth - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 05:09 PM)hotweales Wrote: Even as diehard fans we have to face the facts!
Every football team in the NFL should try to build for a Super Bowl run. (Not sure that is Brown's objective)
We are 3 to 4 years from being a Super Bowl contender
John Gruden, while thought to be crazy moving his good players, understands they are in same boat. So he is purging the good assets the team has for draft picks that can be groomed for that run. This is the perfect year to build defense. Draft will be loaded with good defenders. QB is weak in this draft and RB, WR is okay, but not where the defenders are.
Come draft, we should move Geno, Dunlap, Kirkpatrick, Burfict, Gio, AJ and Andy if any takers and load up on picks.
Andy is not better that someone we could get off the scrap heap
Build around Mixon, Jackson, Bates, Hubbard and Price ( I know he has mixed reviews)
Get any money off the books we can for this run and be ready to add pieces as needed.
It would be painful, but the Bengals can not win a Super Bowl as constructed.
No to all of that, we need to fire Marvin Lewis he is the common denominator, he no longer can motivate the players because they know he is trash and his gameplan is trash. Marvin should not be rewarded with a 3rd rebuild. Hire Harbaugh from Michigan or Rex Ryan draft a Qb.
RE: Let's face the facts - ezekiel23 - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 06:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes he is.
Driskel is a much better quarterback than Andy.When times get tough,Andy is finished.We’ve seen it happen time and time again over the years.Driskel fights hard when the chips are down.
RE: Let's face the facts - fortyyearfan - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 07:27 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Driskel is a much better quarterback than Andy.When times get tough,Andy is finished.We’ve seen it happen time and time again over the years.Driskel fights hard when the chips are down.
If marvin is still here next season,,he will put Dalton back in and Jeff is totally better,bigger,stronger,can run and the players LIKE HIM.To me,this is a not brainer.But its the Bengals,and Duke Tobin picks bad players in the draft,Fisher,number 70 RT,Dre K. all busts,its insane.
:paul:
RE: Let's face the facts - fredtoast - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 07:27 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Driskel is a much better quarterback than Andy.When times get tough,Andy is finished.We’ve seen it happen time and time again over the years.Driskel fights hard when the chips are down.
Since he entered the league in 2011 only ONE QB has more "4th quarter comebacks" and "4th quarter game winning drives" (per profootballreference.com) than Andy Dalton.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - McC - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 07:27 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Driskel is a much better quarterback than Andy.When times get tough,Andy is finished.We’ve seen it happen time and time again over the years.Driskel fights hard when the chips are down.
In the interest of truth, he does have twenty some fourth quarter comebacks, including what, two or three this year, that say this is not entirely true.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - Catmandude123 - 11-28-2018
(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know this will be unpopular, but we might need to start trading these guys rather than lose them in free agency.
My favorite player AJ Green...trade him to the Patriots for a 1st and 3rd Round pick. He's starting to rack up injuries and is going to be a free agent soon and he's over 30 years old.
Guys like Atkins and Dunlap should be traded too if we can find a taker willing to give 1st Round picks.
We're looking at a 2-3-4 year rebuild...and unfortunately our stars are 30 years old and won't be productive at a high level when that completes.
First of all its too late to trade anyone this season. AJ , with his foot problems , isn't going to get you a early first rounder. Even if it did what would the Bengals do with that pick? Maybe pick up Ross 2.0 or first round tackle bust. The team would be in fine shape if they would have drafted better. I think its time to put the new draft brain trust together. Whoever is making those decisions is totally missing the mark as of late.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - ezekiel23 - 11-28-2018
(11-28-2018, 07:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since he entered the league in 2011 only ONE QB has more "4th quarter comebacks" and "4th quarter game winning drives" (per profootballreference.com) than Andy Dalton.
Driskel is the man now for the rest of the season,time will tell.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - Catmandude123 - 11-29-2018
(11-28-2018, 11:56 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Driskel is the man now for the rest of the season,time will tell.
To be totally fair I think Dalton has not been given what he needs to win. That being said he is just above average. The Ravens won it all with Ty Detmer for gods sake. Andy has said nothing about the cards he has been dealt (losing two pro bowl caliber linemen). Maybe he needs to get his own radio show and complain about his teammates like Ben does. The team isn't the problem its who assembled the team and evaluated the talent that isn't producing. Ask the Browns about throwing QBs under the bus because the rest of the team doesn't give him a chance to succeed.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - THE PISTONS - 11-29-2018
(11-29-2018, 06:25 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: To be totally fair I think Dalton has not been given what he needs to win. That being said he is just above average. The Ravens won it all with Ty Detmer for gods sake. Andy has said nothing about the cards he has been dealt (losing two pro bowl caliber linemen). Maybe he needs to get his own radio show and complain about his teammates like Ben does. The team isn't the problem its who assembled the team and evaluated the talent that isn't producing. Ask the Browns about throwing QBs under the bus because the rest of the team doesn't give him a chance to succeed.
You mean Trent Dilfer.
Teams that win the SB with average QB's is an extreme outlier. Most have really good QB's.
And the ones that win with average QB's have great defenses that generate lots of turnovers and points off of turnovers and great RB's and good to great offensive lines.
I'd venture to say that no team has won a Super Bowl with an offensive line like ours is now.
RE: We might need to start trading star players... - Catmandude123 - 11-29-2018
(11-29-2018, 11:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You mean Trent Dilfer.
Teams that win the SB with average QB's is an extreme outlier. Most have really good QB's.
And the ones that win with average QB's have great defenses that generate lots of turnovers and points off of turnovers and great RB's and good to great offensive lines.
I'd venture to say that no team has won a Super Bowl with an offensive line like ours is now.
That's my point. You have to give a little respect for Dalton he has been a total team player. Unlike Ben he hasn't thrown a single player under the bus although he has had the right to for the last two+ years. He has stood in the press conferences and took the heat when a lot of the time it wasn't his to take.Joe Montana couldn't win a super bowl with this team either.