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+--- Thread: Andy Dalton fanboy (/thread-18277.html)
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Whatever - 12-03-2018
(12-03-2018, 07:19 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: This couldnt be anymore false. Pryor was an athlete first that proved to be inaccurate. And look, cardale jones is no doubt a legend in Columbus but in all honesty, had a big arm and benefited from catching lightning in a bottle. And that was helped by JT Barrett not being able to throw a good pass to save his life. Teams were gameplannong for read option right, read option left, handoff up the middle. Then cardale came in and took the top off of unsuspecting defenses.
So sure those two were physical specimens, but what they had did not translate to the NFL game.
Haskins has all the right physical tools and there is absolutely no reason to believe they won’t translate.
The comparisons are night and day.
In what way is it false? Haskins does not have the size or speed of Pryor or Jones and arguably doesn't have as big of an arm. He's a more accurate passer than either, but a lot of that is mechanics. Haskins has good enough physical tools to play on Sunday, but he doesn't have the tools those two have. What you're saying is like saying Aaron Rodgers has better physical tools than Cam Newton.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - CornerBlitz - 12-03-2018
(12-02-2018, 10:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pryor and Cardale had better physical tools than Haskins.
No doubt he had a great year, but he's had a ton of talent around him, and as I said, a lot of OSU QB's start strong and then fall to earth. I would like to see him return to school and back it up before I would go all in on him, as I would like from any other QB.
Haskins could be the first OSU QB to become a franchise QB in the NFL, or he could be another in a long line of guys overhyped by the fan base. I think it's fair to discuss the school and the coach's history particularly when the main reason we're having the discussion is because of the school Haskins plays for.
I'm not sure why I even have to respond to this but the skill level of Haskins compared to a guy like Pryor is the difference between a new Lamborghini and a Chevy Cruz.
It's not even comparable.
.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Whatever - 12-04-2018
(12-03-2018, 11:59 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I'm not sure why I even have to respond to this but the skill level of Haskins compared to a guy like Pryor is the difference between a new Lamborghini and a Chevy Cruz.
It's not even comparable.
.
I'm not even sure why you responded, either, because nobody is saying Haskins isn't more skilled. Now, when people say he has more physical tools, that's a completely different matter. He doesn't. I have to seriously question the objectivity of anybody who makes a claim like that second someone pumps the brakes on the guy. It just feels like more of the yearly drum beating for the latest Ohio State flavor of the month. It's seriously hitting the point where there are better odds that Marvin will win a playoff game than OSU producing a good, let alone great, NFL QB. If this kid played for Rutgers, we aren't talking about him.
If we didn't have a franchise QB, Haskins might be worth the gamble. However, we are not in a position where we need to roll the dice on a one year wonder. In a bad QB class, we have to ask A.)Is Haskins worth what we would have to give to move up and get him and B.)If Haskins falls to us, is he worth passing on what some team desperate for a QB would offer to move up and get him?
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - BengalChris - 12-04-2018
(12-03-2018, 05:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Different era.
Yeah, era is important when it comes to QB numbers. The different eras have such different rules that affect the offense and passing in particular that what use to be MVP numbers is just average these days. It's not because QBs are better, it's because defenses are neutered by rules.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Mer - 12-04-2018
(12-02-2018, 11:59 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: That’s been me for a while now. I witnessed him helping to bring some “reaching the playoffs” consistency to a franchise and a fan base that was starving for it. I saw him appear to break into some elite categories in 2015. I saw potential.
But that has since disappeared. I’m over it. I’m ready to move on. But where am I moving on to?
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Dwayne Haskins. Now anyone and everyone that cannot stand Ohio state, take the blinders off for a moment. The kid is good. Good head on his shoulders, elite arm strength, breaks down man and zone coverages well, and on top of that has just enough mobility to be able to escape the pocket and make plays. He is going to play on sundays, and he is going to play well. So why not here?
The problem is that it would take losing out to even have a remote shot at getting him. But the kid can play and I think he could bring some serious excitement to Cincinnati for a very long time. He could be special.
I say we go for it.
Pass.
It's a sad crop of college QB's when were talking about Haskins being the best coming out. His receivers were wide open and he still couldn't lead them with the ball most of the time. In the NFL those throws that receivers have to adjust to in college are interceptions. No thank you. Wait until the next draft and get a passer, not an athlete that can throw the ball.
Pass.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Socal Bengals fan - 12-05-2018
(12-04-2018, 01:17 AM)Mer Wrote: Pass.
It's a sad crop of college QB's when were talking about Haskins being the best coming out. His receivers were wide open and he still couldn't lead them with the ball most of the time. In the NFL those throws that receivers have to adjust to in college are interceptions. No thank you. Wait until the next draft and get a passer, not an athlete that can throw the ball.
Pass.
At least we could run the RPO more with Haskins. I’m not really a fan but Dalton in 8 years hasn’t lit the world on fire. Quarterbacks like Brady , Wilson , Rivers make no name receivers into pro bowlers. Ours needs high first round players to be successful
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - psychdoctor - 12-05-2018
I am hoping Haskins comes out in 2020. That way there is a chance, albeit small one that Lewis and Brown are out of the picture. I think when the Bengals do replace Lewis, that the new Head Coach will want to pick his QB.
2019 draft should focus on draft a quality OT and Guard. Then address TE and 2 linebackers.
2020, draft a QB and AJ Green replacement along with another OT and DE/safety.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - fredtoast - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 12:04 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: At least we could run the RPO more with Haskins. I’m not really a fan but Dalton in 8 years hasn’t lit the world on fire. Quarterbacks like Brady , Wilson , Rivers make no name receivers into pro bowlers. Ours needs high first round players to be successful
Wrong. Marvin Jones was a fourth round pick. Sanu was a third. Boyd a second.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Nicomo Cosca - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 10:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong. Marvin Jones was a fourth round pick. Sanu was a third. Boyd a second.
Jones was actually a 5th rd.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Wyche'sWarrior - 12-05-2018
(12-04-2018, 12:59 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, era is important when it comes to QB numbers. The different eras have such different rules that affect the offense and passing in particular that what use to be MVP numbers is just average these days. It's not because QBs are better, it's because defenses are neutered by rules.
Gotta agree. What Brees was able to do at Purdue, in that era, is more impressive than what a kid can do in this era in an elite program that plays for National Championships every season to me. To be clear, that goes for ANY of the elite schools.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - The Real Deal - 12-05-2018
There are too many people commenting on this that have not watched enough Ohio state football and Dwayne Haskins this season. Lumping a player in with past players is lazy.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - fredtoast - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:34 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: There are too many people commenting on this that have not watched enough Ohio state football and Dwayne Haskins this season. Lumping a player in with past players is lazy.
Ignoring the fact that many very highly rated college QBs flop in the NFL is also lazy.
And "one year wonders" are even more prone to fail.
Haskins is very good, but he is not a generational "can't miss" talent.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Wyche'sWarrior - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:34 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: There are too many people commenting on this that have not watched enough Ohio state football and Dwayne Haskins this season. Lumping a player in with past players is lazy.
Are you referring to lumping him in with prior OSU/UF/Utah players, or comparing his records to that of Brees?
I watch a few Bucks game because of my inlaws being from Ohio, and I watch all of the FSU games I can, being a Seminoles fan. I can assure you I have no delusions of Deondre Francois being good and doing as well as Haskins does if Francois was the one playing at OSU.....lol. Haskins has looked very good to me, but so did Tebow in Urb's system....I know that all to well, unfortunately. Yes, I know about the mechanics, etc, but Tebow still performed well in Gainesville, and won it all....and a Heisman.
I think not looking at the past and taking all of that into consideration is not looking at a big picture. Like I mentioned earlier, the only moderate success out of Meyers' system was Alex Smith. It took quite a while to develop him into anything at all.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - The Real Deal - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ignoring the fact that many very highly rated college QBs flop in the NFL is also lazy.
And "one year wonders" are even more prone to fail.
Haskins is very good, but he is not a generational "can't miss" talent.
Nobody said he was a can’t miss. My opinion is that the kid has a very good chance to become a very good quarterback in the NFL and I believe he is worthy of a high draft pick. If I were lumping him in with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Dan Marino etc that would be no more ridiculous than the ones lumping him in with past Ohio State qb’s.
But let’s face it, if he became the Bengals quarterback you’d flip your stance and bend over backwards to defend him even if he didn’t deserve it. That you can’t argue because your history speaks for itself.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Wyche'sWarrior - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:45 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Nobody said he was a can’t miss. My opinion is that the kid has a very good chance to become a very good quarterback in the NFL and I believe he is worthy of a high draft pick. If I were lumping him in with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Dan Marino etc that would be no more ridiculous than the ones lumping him in with past Ohio State qb’s.
But let’s face it, if he became the Bengals quarterback you’d flip your stance and bend over backwards to defend him even if he didn’t deserve it. That you can’t argue because your history speaks for itself.
So.....the OSU guys. On that point, I agree with you. He's a much better pure passer than anyone they've had.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - BengalChris - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: Gotta agree. What Brees was able to do at Purdue, in that era, is more impressive than what a kid can do in this era in an elite program that plays for National Championships every season to me. To be clear, that goes for ANY of the elite schools.
Absolutely! Not to take anything away from Haskins this year, as he's clearly got the best numbers of the year and that is something.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Wyche'sWarrior - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 03:34 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Absolutely! Not to take anything away from Haskins this year, as he's clearly got the best numbers of the year and that is something.
Right on.....and I don't want to seem like I'm selling Haskins short either. The only thing that scares me about him is the track record of NFL QBs from his HC. It's quite a sample size. I would be a bit nervous about Tua due to the stellar oline he plays behind. I was a little gunshy about Watson due to how Boyd panned out.....you get the idea, system QBs and/or a product of elite supporting casts. That being said, tools are tools, and arm talent is arm talent. You just gotta hope they have it between the ears to transition to the NFL when the intangibles are there.
EDIT:....and with some guys, you need to have strong coaching and the ability to mentor them and bring them along to adapt, like Reid and Mahommes.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - Synric - 12-05-2018
I see a lot of people writing off Haskins because he goes to Ohio State not because his play on the field.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - The Real Deal - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 02:44 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Are you referring to lumping him in with prior OSU/UF/Utah players, or comparing his records to that of Brees?
I watch a few Bucks game because of my inlaws being from Ohio, and I watch all of the FSU games I can, being a Seminoles fan. I can assure you I have no delusions of Deondre Francois being good and doing as well as Haskins does if Francois was the one playing at OSU.....lol. Haskins has looked very good to me, but so did Tebow in Urb's system....I know that all to well, unfortunately. Yes, I know about the mechanics, etc, but Tebow still performed well in Gainesville, and won it all....and a Heisman.
I think not looking at the past and taking all of that into consideration is not looking at a big picture. Like I mentioned earlier, the only moderate success out of Meyers' system was Alex Smith. It took quite a while to develop him into anything at all.
I would never lump Haskins in with Brees. The records are nice but I also realize the difference in the game between then and now. Haskins, as well as with any QB, will need to prove themselves to be worthy to spoken of in the same breath as the likes of Brees, Brady, Rogers, etc.
All I’m saying is Haskins has shown that he has the tools and potential to be a highly successful QB in the league and to discount him because Ohio state has produced turds in the past is crazy.
RE: Andy Dalton fanboy - The Real Deal - 12-05-2018
(12-05-2018, 03:47 PM)Synric Wrote: I see a lot of people writing off Haskins because he goes to Ohio State not because his play on the field.
Bingo. And credit where credit is due to you because you being a WVU fan tells me you more than likely cannot stand Ohio State. So kudos to you for not being blinded.