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+--- Thread: Joe Mixon (/thread-22968.html)
RE: Joe Mixon - Catmandude123 - 02-05-2020
(02-05-2020, 06:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The only conversation Mixon is in with the elite backs I named is the conversation that goes "Is Joe Mixon as good as these guys?" "No." conversation over. LolSo what is your plan? Let all the top players walk and draft their replacements? You probably OK giving a player who hasn't played a game in year and a half more money than Mixon and Burrow make together. Or maybe keep Dalton for 18 mil also so he can hold a clipboard.
No matter what, Mixon is playing for $1.7m this year. Just because you want to spread out the cap hits to make it seem like you're proposing to pay him less, it doesn't change the fact you're proposing to give him $40m more for only 3 years more. That is paying $13.3m/yr. For a RB.
Except the equation isn't just Burrow + Mixon vs Dalton + Mixon.... it's actually Burrow + Overpaid Mixon vs Burrow + Mixon + *INSERT TOP TIER FA OL HERE*.
I'll take the same players plus the top tier FA OL, thank you.
Also worth of note, here's two RBs after 3 years:
RB A: 667 carries/2,757 yards(4.1 YPC)/29 TD
RB B: 693 carries/2,931 yards(4.2 YPC)/17 TD
RB A is Jeremy Hill, RB B is Joe Mixon. Nobody would have proposed giving Jeremy Hill 3yr/$40m extension after 3 years.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
If you really think Mixon is an elite RB, let him play his 4th year at $1.7m and prove it. You're already proposing paying him 3yr/$40m and making him the 4th highest paid RB in the league. What's the worst that could happen if he is somehow indeed the rare breed of RB that deserves paid in 2020? You have to offer him a few more million a year? That's a way better result than giving the guy $40m only to find out you paid Jeremy Hill 2.0 and you've already committed yourself to giving him a signing bonus and put dead cap restrictions on yourself if you need to cut him.
RE: Joe Mixon - TheLeonardLeap - 02-05-2020
(02-05-2020, 07:09 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So what is your plan? Let all the top players walk and draft their replacements? You probably OK giving a player who hasn't played a game in year and a half more money than Mixon and Burrow make together. Or maybe keep Dalton for 18 mil also so he can hold a clipboard.
You're clearly okay with making random absurd hyperbolic conclusions about people based off of zero evidence, or even in direct conflict to the evidence.
I'm not even sure how to fully reply to your post just arbitrarily deciding someone's stances based off of nothing, without being uncivil.
RE: Joe Mixon - bengals1969 - 02-05-2020
(02-03-2020, 11:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Joe Mixon is a FA in 2021. After or before this year, the Bengals are going to have to decide on whether to throw a bunch of money (that's most likely what it will take) at him and extend him.
IMO one of the bigger mistakes the Bengals have made recently is signing Gio to an extension and I think resigning Mixon could be a mistake as well.
I love Joe, but the Bengals needs to be smart here. The NFL has changed. Gone are the days where teams are throwing a bunch of money at the RB position. The Chiefs and 49ers were just in the Super Bowl with cheap veteran RBs and young RBs on rookie deals. The Patriots operate the same way.
If the money makes sense, then sure - extend him. If im the Bengals, though - I'm not breaking the bank on Joe Mixon. I'm investing the money saved on him in the offensive and defensive lines.
Sorry I don't follow.
If the Bengals must throw a boat load of money at Mixon that says to me the NFL values his position and he has higher value than you assume.
If the NFL has changed and the teams aren't throwing money at the RB, he should be a low cost signing.
Can't have it both ways.
RE: Joe Mixon - JSR18 - 02-05-2020
(02-03-2020, 11:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If we are not getting a new play caller that is too bad that Taylor cannot see that his poor play calling was a giant reasonUnfortunately Nate, ZT is absolutely convinced that he's the best play caller this side of Sean McVay or (insert any competant play caller here).
why we were the worst scoring Offense in the NFL last year. Get him the best weapons we can of course but damn is that
depressing unless Dalton was just picking the wrong plays last year.
I don't want Burrow lining up in the Shotgun on fourth and inches and running the ball....
UC-He sucked.
Anywhere else he called plays. He sucked.
Short of somebody in the FO calling him in and telling him to quit calling plays, we're screwed...
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RE: Joe Mixon - Catmandude123 - 02-05-2020
(02-05-2020, 08:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're clearly okay with making random absurd hyperbolic conclusions about people based off of zero evidence, or even in direct conflict to the evidence.Again , What is your plan. These were my first words when I replied. The rest were speculation and followed with question marks.
I'm not even sure how to fully reply to your post just arbitrarily deciding someone's stances based off of nothing, without being uncivil.
RE: Joe Mixon - TheLeonardLeap - 02-05-2020
(02-05-2020, 09:48 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Again , What is your plan. These were my first words when I replied. The rest were speculation and followed with question marks.
"Speculation" followed with zero question marks.
Quote:You probably OK giving a player who hasn't played a game in year and a half more money than Mixon and Burrow make together. Or maybe keep Dalton for 18 mil also so he can hold a clipboard.
Where's those question marks? Let me try some speculation for you...
What's your plan? You probably OK with giving the 1st overall pick for Johnny Manziel. Give Dalton a 5 year extension at $30m/yr. Murder some orphans. Hit puppies with your car. Sodomize a goat.
Just speculation followed with "question marks".
RE: Joe Mixon - Catmandude123 - 02-05-2020
(02-05-2020, 10:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "Speculation" followed with zero question marks.
Where's those question marks? Let me try some speculation for you...
What's your plan? You probably OK with giving the 1st overall pick for Johnny Manziel. Give Dalton a 5 year extension at $30m/yr. Murder some orphans. Hit puppies with your car. Sodomize a goat.
Just speculation followed with "question marks".
Again just what is your plan? This makes three times I have asked. If you don't want to sign Mixon just what do you think is the best route for the team to take?
RE: Joe Mixon - BengalsRocker - 02-06-2020
(02-05-2020, 06:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The only conversation Mixon is in with the elite backs I named is the conversation that goes "Is Joe Mixon as good as these guys?" "No." conversation over. Lol
No matter what, Mixon is playing for $1.7m this year. Just because you want to spread out the cap hits to make it seem like you're proposing to pay him less, it doesn't change the fact you're proposing to give him $40m more for only 3 years more. That is paying $13.3m/yr. For a RB.
Except the equation isn't just Burrow + Mixon vs Dalton + Mixon.... it's actually Burrow + Overpaid Mixon vs Burrow + Mixon + *INSERT TOP TIER FA OL HERE*.
I'll take the same players plus the top tier FA OL, thank you.
Also worth of note, here's two RBs after 3 years:
RB A: 667 carries/2,757 yards(4.1 YPC)/29 TD
RB B: 693 carries/2,931 yards(4.2 YPC)/17 TD
RB A is Jeremy Hill, RB B is Joe Mixon. Nobody would have proposed giving Jeremy Hill 3yr/$40m extension after 3 years.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
If you really think Mixon is an elite RB, let him play his 4th year at $1.7m and prove it. You're already proposing paying him 3yr/$40m and making him the 4th highest paid RB in the league. What's the worst that could happen if he is somehow indeed the rare breed of RB that deserves paid in 2020? You have to offer him a few more million a year? That's a way better result than giving the guy $40m only to find out you paid Jeremy Hill 2.0 and you've already committed yourself to giving him a signing bonus and put dead cap restrictions on yourself if you need to cut him.
I get what you're saying but you don't put the Bengals factor into your equations.
Like yourself, I would wish for them to sign said top tier OL Free Agent but that's us.
Unless they do a complete 180 and change their practices or somehow one of those type FAs begs to play for them it ain't gonna happen.
I know it's absurd to think of dishing out that kind of cash for Mixon but damn it they suck at getting and retaining solid talent recently.
You can debate till the cows come home about if Mixon is elite talent but he did have moderate success with if not the worst but bottom 3 offensive line.
Who knows what he could have done with even a slighty better O-Line and a play caller who wasn't an overwhelmed asshat?
Anyway I have much respect for you and your well thought out posts yet I wonder if The Family's tendencies have escaped you on this one.
It sucks that natural rationale to make a splash signing on the O-Line or linebacker isn't what this team has been about.
They might've made some effort and failed but it pretty much has hindered the team because they've been flopping draftwise as well.
RE: Joe Mixon - Au165 - 02-06-2020
Interesting note, rumors coming out are the Cardinals will cut David Johnson this off season and that the Rams are looking to trade Todd Gurley. Two highly paid running back mistakes coming back to bite their teams.
Joe Mixon - BenZoo2 - 02-06-2020
(02-03-2020, 10:48 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: You extend Mixon at all costs. He's a game changer that helps in the team in many ways. I just hope Mike doesnt get cheap.
Have you been paying attention to this team the last 30 years. Hoping mike brown doesn’t get cheap is like hoping to stop a wind storm with a screen door.
But don’t worry. Mikey will extend Mixon because he’s one of the few top draft picks that have panned out recently. And ol ebenezer isn’t in the market of making other teams better. Extending Mixon would also mean doing less work looking at external free agents to spend money on
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RE: Joe Mixon - NATI BENGALS - 02-06-2020
(02-05-2020, 06:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The only conversation Mixon is in with the elite backs I named is the conversation that goes "Is Joe Mixon as good as these guys?" "No." conversation over. Lol
No matter what, Mixon is playing for $1.7m this year. Just because you want to spread out the cap hits to make it seem like you're proposing to pay him less, it doesn't change the fact you're proposing to give him $40m more for only 3 years more. That is paying $13.3m/yr. For a RB.
If you really think Mixon is an elite RB, let him play his 4th year at $1.7m and prove it. You're already proposing paying him 3yr/$40m and making him the 4th highest paid RB in the league. What's the worst that could happen if he is somehow indeed the rare breed of RB that deserves paid in 2020? You have to offer him a few more million a year? That's a way better result than giving the guy $40m only to find out you paid Jeremy Hill 2.0 and you've already committed yourself to giving him a signing bonus and put dead cap restrictions on yourself if you need to cut him.
Fair enough. I guess I am just more impressed by the back to back 1,000 yard seasons behind some absolutely terrible OL play with Dalton, Driskel and Finley at QB. I would love to see what he could do behind a good OL and with a Heisman all world QB.
He would be under contract for the next 4 years for 41.7m. Do the math however you want.
That is part of the reason he is signing a new contract early, he is getting a raise now. Sure he could hit the jackpot in free agency if he stays healthy and lights it up. But it is NFL football shit happens. He gets to capitalize on his value now and get guaranteed money and we get to secure a top notch RB talent in the prime of his career.
I'm usually in the RBs are a dime a dozen crowd.
RE: Joe Mixon - SHRacerX - 02-06-2020
(02-03-2020, 11:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Joe Mixon is a FA in 2021. After or before this year, the Bengals are going to have to decide on whether to throw a bunch of money (that's most likely what it will take) at him and extend him.
IMO one of the bigger mistakes the Bengals have made recently is signing Gio to an extension and I think resigning Mixon could be a mistake as well.
I love Joe, but the Bengals needs to be smart here. The NFL has changed. Gone are the days where teams are throwing a bunch of money at the RB position. The Chiefs and 49ers were just in the Super Bowl with cheap veteran RBs and young RBs on rookie deals. The Patriots operate the same way.
If the money makes sense, then sure - extend him. If im the Bengals, though - I'm not breaking the bank on Joe Mixon. I'm investing the money saved on him in the offensive and defensive lines.
You will surely get jumped for this, but you are making a lot of sense. Let's not try to pretend that RBs like Mostart and Briedle are a dime a dozen, but I wouldn't want to spend crazy money on a RB that we barely use in the passing game. If he is going to become a centerpiece of the offense and be used more in the passing game (stop telling me Gio is a better pass protector...spread out the defense with weapons, don't keep them in as blockers...the numbers bear out that there are fewer pressures with empty backfields).
If they are going to continue to take Mixon off the field on 3rd down, unless it is 3rd and short, he shouldn't be paid what an every down back that is heavily involved in the receiving game would be paid.
RE: Joe Mixon - BengalsRocker - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:54 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Have you been paying attention to this team the last 30 years. Hoping mike brown doesn’t get cheap is like hoping to stop a wind storm with a screen door.
But don’t worry. Mikey will extend Mixon because he’s one of the few top draft picks that have panned out recently. And ol ebenezer isn’t in the market of making other teams better. Extending Mixon would also mean doing less work looking at external free agents to spend money on
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Nah. Whether they spend the money on his extension or not they'd probably overpay some scrubs again instead of putting it to good use.
That's what they do.
RE: Joe Mixon - BengalChris - 02-06-2020
(02-04-2020, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If going 2-14 was a good thing then we should thank ZT for getting us into last place to draft Burrow and replace him. He's done his job and we should move on.
I have faith in Burrow but he's already going to be dragging MBs dead weight and saddling him with what appears to be a loser coaching staff is flat out cruel. I'm being a bit melodramatic though, but if i wanted to thank heavens for 2-14 seasons I'd be a Browns fan.
I couldn't agree more. Moving on should have been the team's first off-season move.
RE: Joe Mixon - J24 - 02-07-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: Interesting note, rumors coming out are the Cardinals will cut David Johnson this off season and that the Rams are looking to trade Todd Gurley. Two highly paid running back mistakes coming back to bite their teams.
Misleading headline they took that from a bold prediction thread by ESPN beat writers. It will be very expensive for both teams to get rid of them.
RE: Joe Mixon - Au165 - 02-07-2020
(02-07-2020, 01:36 PM)J24 Wrote: Misleading headline they took that from a bold prediction thread by ESPN beat writers. It will be very expensive for both teams to get rid of them.
Maybe for Johnson, but Gurley's rumor has some serious smoke to it. The Rams are meeting with Gurley soon to discuss his future with the team. The rumor is they are going to essentially ask him to restructure his deal in a way the team can handle. It is believed the team could potentially do a Brock Osweiller and give another team a pick to take his contract. There is savings to the Rams by moving on from Gurley, roughly 4-5 million so it's not financially prohibitive.
What is interesting here is it was obvious a player issue in Arizona as Drake came in and had success where Johnson didn't. In LA though I believe the issue is the scheme was figured out more than Gurley degradation other than the long term impact of his knee. When you look at the whole teams YPC this year compared to last year everyone dropped. That tells me that A. the line got worse, which it did and B. the other teams better schemed using the 6-1 look the patriots ran in the SB to stop the outside zone that made them so successful. This kind of re enforces in my mind why I just don't want to pay a singular back big money.
RE: Joe Mixon - grampahol - 02-08-2020
It's always blown me away why any player would want to be a RB in the league when their shelf life is so short, salaries are so low and there's such a risk of serious injury. It kind of indicates they don't pay RBs for their smarts. You just don't hear of too many Rhodes Scholar running backs these days do ya?
RE: Joe Mixon - WhodeyRay - 02-09-2020
(02-03-2020, 10:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Preach it, Au.I agree. Mike and Mike or whatever it is called now had a piece about the last 10 superbowls only 1 rb and that was this year got paid 1 million dollars and it was exactly 1 million. The rest were under a million. We paid a back up 5.9 mill this year. Money wasted. Dont eat your cap in a running back. Didn't work for cowboys, jets, rams and the list goes on. Build a line and most any rb can run through a hole.
I am firmly in the "if your RB isn't Barry Sanders, don't pay them" camp.
Use that saved money on your line and a good OC and who the RB is won't really matter (unless they're Barry Sanders, lol).
RE: Joe Mixon - Nicomo Cosca - 02-09-2020
(02-09-2020, 03:10 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: I agree. Mike and Mike or whatever it is called now had a piece about the last 10 superbowls only 1 rb and that was this year got paid 1 million dollars and it was exactly 1 million. The rest were under a million. We paid a back up 5.9 mill this year. Money wasted. Dont eat your cap in a running back. Didn't work for cowboys, jets, rams and the list goes on. Build a line and most any rb can run through a hole.
Not any RB can catch passes and be a dual threat though. The fact that we’re not getting even more than we do out of Mixon (and Gio to a lesser extent) is on the coaching.
RE: Joe Mixon - WhodeyRay - 02-09-2020
(02-09-2020, 06:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not any RB can catch passes and be a dual threat though. The fact that we’re not getting even more than we do out of Mixon (and Gio to a lesser extent) is on the coaching.
I get what your are saying and agree on the coaching but in this day and age very few running backs are strickly runners and not duel threat. With the coach game the way it has gone over the last 10 years most rbs have no issue with catching passes anymore. Dont get me wrong, I would love to keep Mixon around. I just don't think we should spend Zeke, Laveon or Gurley money on any rb. It has never been a successful strategy.