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+--- Thread: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford (/thread-23998.html)
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - fredtoast - 05-13-2020
The only player I think we should extend would be Mixon. He not only deserves a raise, but he would be the easiest to get done. He is only making $1.2 million this year. I believe he would be thrilled to get a contract at $8 million or so a year that would instantly put $10 million in his pocket instead of gambling that he might get injured this year and never make any more money in the NFL.
We could pay Warford a decent salary and still extend Mixon. Only problem would be in Warford is expecting $12-$15 million a year.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Synric - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 02:20 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Torn on this one.
I think he IS an upgrade, but does have red flags. Slow, not a good pass protector. Not real mobile. Elite run blocker.
I do not know enough about him, or our scheme to know if he is a schematic fit.
I do know I'd prefer a T to a G. Or a T and a pass catching TE.
In terms of cap, even at $7 mil (and I hope he'd be cheaper), we could sign him, extend Mixon & AJ, & still have $8-10 mill in space pretty easily. Sitting around $17 mil in space after signing the rookies. Worford at $7 takes us down to $10. But we probably cut Redmond as a result, freeing up more than $2 mil. Back at $12 or so. If we get a long term deal with AJ done, it likely comes in below $17.8 mil per year. Just spitballing, but say $13.8. That ticks us up to $16 million. Mixon makes just under $2 mil now, say he gets a $7 mil bump to $9 mil per. That leaves us $9 million worth of room. Give or take a mil or two. If you want to free up another mil or so, let Sims walk and go with 2 of Brown/Rose/Swann as our 5th-6th CBs.
2019 was Warford's worst year in pass protection but has mostly graded out as one of the better pass protecting guards in the NFL.
Apparently in 2019 he struggled early in the year because he came into the season overweight and with poor conditioning but looked like himself in the second half of the season. Larry Warford is a very good interior offensive linemen and with a deal like Harts (3 years for 21m) he could be a steal for the Bengals... If he can stay in shape during the offseason so an incentive-laden deal would probably be best.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - yellowxdiscipline - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The only player I think we should extend would be Mixon. He not only deserves a raise, but he would be the easiest to get done. He is only making $1.2 million this year. I believe he would be thrilled to get a contract at $8 million or so a year that would instantly put $10 million in his pocket instead of gambling that he might get injured this year and never make any more money in the NFL.
We could pay Warford a decent salary and still extend Mixon. Only problem would be in Warford is expecting $12-$15 million a year.
Weird I saw 7 million.
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1260183608586797057
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Geno_Can_Dunk - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The only player I think we should extend would be Mixon. He not only deserves a raise, but he would be the easiest to get done. He is only making $1.2 million this year. I believe he would be thrilled to get a contract at $8 million or so a year that would instantly put $10 million in his pocket instead of gambling that he might get injured this year and never make any more money in the NFL.
We could pay Warford a decent salary and still extend Mixon. Only problem would be in Warford is expecting $12-$15 million a year.
I think you're way off. Warford "lost" 7 million in salary this year when he got cut. That's why it's reported that he's seeking 7 million, to make that up. And truth be told, when a 29 yo player has weight concerns, late in the offseason when teams have less cap room, it's unlikely he'll even get that, unless it's in incentives. So if we did sign Warford, his cap hit would something less than 7 million. Also, any team could've traded for Warford and had him at 7 million, so it's very unlikely that they'll now pay him 12 million.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Geno_Can_Dunk - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is like Christian Westerman all over again. Plays one meaningless game at the end of the year and everyone falls in love with him. It doesn't take much for fans to fall in love with a player. Vinny Rey played one great game against the Ravens and fans were wanting to build the defense around him. Cedric Peerman had one long run on preseason and many were calling for him to be a starter.
However, in this case the coaches seem to be higher on Johnson than they ever were for Westerman.
I know Bobby Hart is a favorite whipping buy for a lot of fans, but he played over a thousand snaps last year and only allowed 4.5 sacks with only 2 holding penalties. I am not saying he is a great player. I would have no problem replacing him if we find a better RT. I am just saying he is far from the trash some people here claim he is. They just hated him for his horrible 2018 season (just like I did), but refuse to see the improvement last year.
I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not sure how much the coaches really love Johnson, or if they're just trying give fans a positive spin, or are just saying he's better than your typical undrafted waiver claim. But whatever the case, as you say, fans seem to have built this into the next Willie Anderson just fell out of the sky into our laps.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - fredtoast - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:20 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Also, any team could've traded for Warford and had him at 7 million, so it's very unlikely that they'll now pay him 12 million.
That does not make any sense unless you know what the Saints were asking for in trade.
I am not saying Warford will get huge money. I am just saying that may be what he is expecting.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - fredtoast - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:24 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not sure how much the coaches really love Johnson, or if they're just trying give fans a positive spin, or are just saying he's better than your typical undrafted waiver claim. But whatever the case, as you say, fans seem to have built this into the next Willie Anderson just fell out of the sky into our laps.
The Stealers plan was for Fred to play guard. Hart could also play guard. When the coaches said there is open competition for the right side of the line I believe they see Hart as a starter but maybe changing position.
and sometimes get cut lights a fire under a players ass. Maybe Fred really has improved dramatically after being released by the Stealers.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - YorkshireBengal - 05-13-2020
Warford would make sense on a one year prove it deal. Problem comes when a team offers him a couple of extra years security.
I’ve seen some say he’s not a perfect scheme fit. The question is then is his ability good enough (compared to other IOLs) to overcome the poor scheme fit?
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - SHRacerX - 05-13-2020
(05-12-2020, 11:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We act like the team has the decision... the player has the decision.. if 5 teams are looking at him.. he is going to weigh any offers first from all the teams..
I could see Larry taking a one year prove-it deal to try and get a bigger contract next year. I like this possibility because it gets the most out of him next year and allows XSF and Adeniji a year to develop. Especially important given the lack of offseason.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Wyche'sWarrior - 05-13-2020
(05-12-2020, 08:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like Peters too but Warford like you said is 10 years younger and is a top 10 Guard easily right now.
Kentucky native as well, so we might have a home town thought from him.
Yep, Warford played high school ball in the town I live in now....would be cool to see him in stripes. We could use his veteran presence for sure.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - SHRacerX - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:24 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not sure how much the coaches really love Johnson, or if they're just trying give fans a positive spin, or are just saying he's better than your typical undrafted waiver claim. But whatever the case, as you say, fans seem to have built this into the next Willie Anderson just fell out of the sky into our laps.
He could be the next Bobbie Williams, which I would take in a heartbeat.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - fredtoast - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He could be the next Bobbie Williams, which I would take in a heartbeat.
Johnson may work out, but he is in no way comparable to Bobbie Williams who was a former second round pick with over 30 NFL games and a dozen starts. He played out his full contract with the Eagles before we signed him as a free agent.
Johnson was an undrafted free agent with 0 snaps who got cut by the Stealers.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Geno_Can_Dunk - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He could be the next Bobbie Williams, which I would take in a heartbeat.
Operative word is "could." He could be a lot of things. The discussion in this thread is about his floor, not his ceiling, because some on here are saying we should just go ahead and cut Hart now because we have Johnson.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - yellowxdiscipline - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Johnson may work out, but he is in no way comparable to Bobbie Williams who was a former second round pick with over 30 NFL games and a dozen starts. He played out his full contract with the Eagles before we signed him as a free agent.
Johnson was an undrafted free agent with 0 snaps who got cut by the Stealers.
"BuT tHeY wAnTeD tO kEeP hIm, So He MuSt Be GoOd."
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Wes Mantooth - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That does not make any sense unless you know what the Saints were asking for in trade.
I am not saying Warford will get huge money. I am just saying that may be what he is expecting.
I would assume that asking price got as low as a 7th or even a conditional pick. Why cut someone if you could get anything for him?
If teams were unwilling to part with that low of compensation that I would have to believe that his market is at or below what teams would have taken on in salary in a trade.
So I think he's probably looking at 7 mil max. And I think that's a pretty fair assumption. I'm not sure how he, nor his agent, could expect anything greater, given the lack of suitors in the trade market.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Geno_Can_Dunk - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 12:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I would assume that asking price got as low as a 7th or even a conditional pick. Why cut someone if you could get anything for him?
If teams were unwilling to part with that low of compensation that I would have to believe that his market is at or below what teams would have taken on in salary in a trade.
So I think he's probably looking at 7 mil max. And I think that's a pretty fair assumption. I'm not sure how he, nor his agent, could expect anything greater, given the lack of suitors in the trade market.
Precisely.
Not only that, but reports that he's looking for 7 likely come from his agent.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Wes Mantooth - 05-13-2020
I'll never understand the hype or the faith some have in Fred Johnson. Could he be decent? Maybe. Maybe now. Maybe later. Maybe never.
The guy went undrafted. Strike one.
***Yes, undrafted players can become decent players, but that likelyhood is greatly reduced.)
The guy gets cut in his rookie season, after only 6 games. Strike 2.
***Yes, sometimes you can grab decent players off waivers. But he wasn't a cap casualty, an injury concern, or a malcontent. He was a rookie, who out of FIFTY THREE choices, was chosen to be put on the block.
So we've got a guy that 32 teams, including our own, who passed on this in the draft. Then you've got a guy, who after going undrafted, gets cuts 6 games into the season...
Does any of this scream "We need to count on this guy for this year" ???
If he's not good enough for the Steelers to stash on the bottom of their roster then how is he good enough to plug into a legitimate role here? And which team is a better judge of talent; The Bengals or The Steelers? Or the other 30 teams that didn't draft this kid?
I mean, if you want to hope that he develops and that we found a diamond in the rough then that's fine. But remember, he was a "project" coming out of college. That can take time, and given what I've written above, it's a project that everyone else didn't deem that likely of paying dividends.
So, yeah, you can keep on the bottom of the roster, develop him. Get him some snaps in preseason, have him active for some games. But to just think that, "Yeah, this guy is someone who we can count on for 2020 to play a significant role" is pure insanity.
You cant count on guys like Fred Johnson yet, just like we shouldn't have counted on Michael Jordan to come in and start after Boling retired. Counting on UDFA waiver wire claims and 4th round rookies is just asking for problems. It's almost guaranteeing below-average play at the position.
Fred Johnson, Jake Dolanga, Cody Core, Jordan Evans, Ryan Whalen... Some of you all read way too many fluff pieces about how these guys "flash" in camp, and expect big things.
If Fred Johnson sees significant PT this year then we most likey have significant problems. Quit hyping this guy up because he looked "not that bad" in one meaningless game (for both teams). Fred Johnson is a complete unknown and a question mark. Period.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Fan_in_Kettering - 05-13-2020
The 2020 offensive line still needs significant upgrades and Larry Warford would immediately become the best guard on the Cincinnati roster. As the great philosopher Larry the Cable Guy once said, "Git 'er done!"
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Geno_Can_Dunk - 05-13-2020
I too think Warford would be a positive addition. The recent puff-piece about the O line on Bengals.com makes me think it probably won't happen though.
RE: Report: Bengals are interested in Warford - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That does not make any sense unless you know what the Saints were asking for in trade.
I am not saying Warford will get huge money. I am just saying that may be what he is expecting.
Rumor mill has him asking for $7. He won't ask for $12. His contract is over $5 mil in dead cap to the Saints. I am guessing that is his guarantee/pro-rated signing bonus amount for the year. Whatever he is making.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/larry-warford-12346/
He is asking for $7, which makes sense. 7 + 5 = 12. Which is what he was due to make before he got cut. No way he is asking for $12 on top of his $5.
https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/11/saints-cut-larry-warford-contract-nfl-free-agency-reports/