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Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - BenZoo2 - 02-09-2021
Here’s a thought. Start with a small group, 3-5 guys. I would start with Munoz, Anderson and Riley at the minimum. Let them have some input on who is worthy
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RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 12:14 PM)jason Wrote: I think we could squeeze our guys in... Unless they go with a ring of pretty good. For instance I think only 2 QBs get in it. No Palmer or Dalton.
I agree. If you've lead the league in passing, won an MVP and lead your team to the SB, you deserve to be in. Short of that? Nah.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
I wouldn't put Dalton in because he was a stat accumulator. And it was all in the regular season.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Nately120 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 01:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I agree. If you've lead the league in passing, won an MVP and lead your team to the SB, you deserve to be in. Short of that? Nah.
Why would a franchise want to go out if its way to emphasize that we haven't had a good QB in over 30 years? Here is our ring of honor....who is in it? People your grandparents watched! NEW DEY!
Nothing says success like having a 71 year old man as the most recent QB anyone around here can stand. Oof.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - MileHighGrowler - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 01:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Why would a franchise want to go out if its way to emphasize that we haven't had a good QB in over 30 years? Here is our ring of honor....who is in it? People your grandparents watched! NEW DEY!
Nothing says success like having a 71 year old man as the most recent QB anyone around here can stand. Oof.
We'd have players in more recent decades than that. But it doesn't have to be QBs. I think it's either HOF-caliber guys or people who have had a major influence on the team/city that get recognized in that way. Not throwing names/numbers up just because there hasn't been a playoff win in 30 years.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Nately120 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 01:34 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: We'd have players in more recent decades than that. But it doesn't have to be QBs. I think it's either HOF-caliber guys or people who have had a major influence on the team/city that get recognized in that way. Not throwing names/numbers up just because there hasn't been a playoff win in 30 years.
I hear ya, it's just that QBs are lightning rods for this sort of thing. The main thing this whole Dunlap question brought to the surface though is that we have prominent performers who are notably absent due to player/FO conflicts. That's where winning cures all. Brady and Bellichick, Noll and Bradshaw didn't get along, but you know...SB wins fix everything and provide a nice glossy view of stuff.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 01:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Why would a franchise want to go out if its way to emphasize that we haven't had a good QB in over 30 years? Here is our ring of honor....who is in it? People your grandparents watched! NEW DEY!
Nothing says success like having a 71 year old man as the most recent QB anyone around here can stand. Oof.
I never really thought of a RoH as something for recent players. It's more of a history thing. Chad belongs there. Geno belongs there. Willie. There's plenty of recent-enough guys that it doesn't look like a museum.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Sled21 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 01:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wouldn't put Dalton in because he was a stat accumulator. And it was all in the regular season.
Well, there's stats and then there are stats....... Andy Dalton did not win in the post season, but,
Most touchdowns passes (204)
Most completions (2757)
Best Career Passer Rating (87.5%)
Most games with 300+ passing (28)
Most game winning drives (24)
Record as Starter (2nd best behind Carter) 70-61-2
Single season records in touchdowns (33) and Yards (4293)
As a "stat accumulator" he pretty much got them all. The only one that seems to have eluded him was a post season win. I think he would have to go up, or it's the same as the HOF keeping Riley out when he is 5th all time interceptions. That's also just a stat.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 03:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, there's stats and then there are stats....... Andy Dalton did not win in the post season, but,
Most touchdowns passes (204)
Most completions (2757)
Best Career Passer Rating (87.5%)
Most games with 300+ passing (28)
Most game winning drives (24)
Record as Starter (2nd best behind Carter) 70-61-2
Single season records in touchdowns (33) and Yards (4293)
As a "stat accumulator" he pretty much got them all. The only one that seems to have eluded him was a post season win. I think he would have to go up, or it's the same as the HOF keeping Riley out when he is 5th all time interceptions. That's also just a stat.
But that's what a stat accumulator does. Hangs around long enough to get those numbers. He literally did nothing in the post season (as well as everyone else), did almost nothing on Sunday and Monday night. Most of his prime time success came on Thursday night.
Nice dude. Good numbers for a career. Not deserving for RoH. Well, unless you're a team with a sad history of mostly nondescript players and you need something to fill it out.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - MileHighGrowler - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 03:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, there's stats and then there are stats....... Andy Dalton did not win in the post season, but,
Most touchdowns passes (204)
Most completions (2757)
Best Career Passer Rating (87.5%)
Most games with 300+ passing (28)
Most game winning drives (24)
Record as Starter (2nd best behind Carter) 70-61-2
Single season records in touchdowns (33) and Yards (4293)
As a "stat accumulator" he pretty much got them all. The only one that seems to have eluded him was a post season win. I think he would have to go up, or it's the same as the HOF keeping Riley out when he is 5th all time interceptions. That's also just a stat.
That's comparing two different things, though. Stats for the team vs stats in the league. Ken Riley holds his record for the entire NFL. Andy Dalton holds stats for the Bengals. Then you've got to look at career length, time on the team, etc. Point is, it's not apples to apples the way you've listed out Dalton's stats. Dalton is not a HOF QB, he didn't take this team to a single playoff win, he did nothing that I personally would denote as worth of ROF inclusion. He was serviceable QB, likeable guy, and helped the team get to a bunch of playoff games, but that's it. I'd put his picture throwing to AJ somewhere inside the stadium to memorialize his time with the team, but I would not include him in any induction conversations.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Hammerstripes - 02-09-2021
(02-07-2021, 07:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Maybe, I just think guys that left on bad terms and tried to embarrass the organization will never be on it. There are a couple of them that come to mind.
I don't think you can hold that against them. You don't erase years of performance and being a good community guy over a couple of weeks at the end of the career.
There's a few that should be in despite their exit:
Carl Pickens
Carlos Dunlap
Corey Dillon
I wouldn't put them in the initial group, but those guys are easily among the best at their positions in Bengals history,
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Sled21 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 03:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But that's what a stat accumulator does. Hangs around long enough to get those numbers. He literally did nothing in the post season (as well as everyone else), did almost nothing on Sunday and Monday night. Most of his prime time success came on Thursday night.
Nice dude. Good numbers for a career. Not deserving for RoH. Well, unless you're a team with a sad history of mostly nondescript players and you need something to fill it out.
Fair point, BUT.... people are saying Dunlap should be in the ROH because he is the Bengals all time sack leader, right? That's a stat. He has a franchise record. Dalton has 8. Dunlap has 2 Pro Bowls, Dalton has 3. How does that compute? If Carlos belongs, Andy definitely belongs.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - XenoMorph - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 03:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But that's what a stat accumulator does. Hangs around long enough to get those numbers. He literally did nothing in the post season (as well as everyone else), did almost nothing on Sunday and Monday night. Most of his prime time success came on Thursday night.
Nice dude. Good numbers for a career. Not deserving for RoH. Well, unless you're a team with a sad history of mostly nondescript players and you need something to fill it out.
andy is more deserving than dunlap.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - XenoMorph - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 04:33 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: That's comparing two different things, though. Stats for the team vs stats in the league. Ken Riley holds his record for the entire NFL. Andy Dalton holds stats for the Bengals. Then you've got to look at career length, time on the team, etc. Point is, it's not apples to apples the way you've listed out Dalton's stats. Dalton is not a HOF QB, he didn't take this team to a single playoff win, he did nothing that I personally would denote as worth of ROF inclusion. He was serviceable QB, likeable guy, and helped the team get to a bunch of playoff games, but that's it. I'd put his picture throwing to AJ somewhere inside the stadium to memorialize his time with the team, but I would not include him in any induction conversations.
yeah but are we talking HoF or bengals ring of Honor???
If you all want to blame dalton for every playoff loss plenty of other players could have also stepped up in those games
Wins are a team thing... So are playoff losses
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Sled21 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 05:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: andy is more deserving than dunlap.
Agreed, and I'm not saying either would be on it, but if Dunlap makes it Andy definitely makes it.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - XenoMorph - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 05:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Agreed, and I'm not saying either would be on it, but if Dunlap makes it Andy definitely makes it.
cant think of a better QB the last 25 years than Andy for the Bengals. Carson had talent Yes but ultimately did less while here
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 05:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Fair point, BUT.... people are saying Dunlap should be in the ROH because he is the Bengals all time sack leader, right? That's a stat. He has a franchise record. Dalton has 8. Dunlap has 2 Pro Bowls, Dalton has 3. How does that compute? If Carlos belongs, Andy definitely belongs.
I honestly don't know if Carlos does belong either. That's why i asked about Eddie Edwards. He's #1 but does he feel like a guy that should be in a RoH?
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - Sled21 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 06:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I honestly don't know if Carlos does belong either. That's why i asked about Eddie Edwards. He's #1 but does he feel like a guy that should be in a RoH?
This is probably why they haven't done one... no one can agree. I think EE belongs, but most people probably don't remember him, or a lot of the greats not named Munoz, Anderson or Riley.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 05:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: andy is more deserving than dunlap.
By peer production, that is debatable.
In his 10.5 yrs here, Dunlap was top 12 at his position (total pressures), 5 times.
In his 9 yrs here, Dalton was top 12 at his position (quarterback rating), 2 times with 1 #13th.
Keep in mind that there are 2x as many EDs as there are QBs in an NFL game.
RE: Carlos wants to be in Ring of Honor if we get one.... - rfaulk34 - 02-09-2021
(02-09-2021, 05:50 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: cant think of a better QB the last 25 years than Andy for the Bengals. Carson had talent Yes but ultimately did less while here
They're pretty equal.
Carson-- 234 y/pg, 62.9 comp%, 4.8 td%, 3.1 int%, 86.9 rating.
Dalton-- 238 y/pg, 62.0 comp%, 4.6 td%, 2.7 int%, 87.5 rating.
Carson was a #1OA pick while Dalton was a 2nd rounder, though Carson was considered a top 3 QB for a while early in his career.