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+--- Thread: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton (/thread-3013.html)
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - GodFather - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Whacked Wrote: Luck = Major regression
Colin = Just got benched
AD = 4 playoffs in a row and 7-0 and leading the NFL in a few QB categories
YO AD Haters ....... Where u at?
/Thread
Thread= Fails
Fixed it for ya!
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - McC - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:54 AM)djs7685 Wrote: My bad. Topics on an internet message board have never, ever gone slightly off topic in the history of message boards.
WTS, discussing the strength of divisional foes for each of the respective QBs in question is 100% relevant to a discussion on said QBs. You're welcome for remaining on topic
Well, I go back a dozen or so posts and i don't even see any of those three names mentioned, so you can see my confusion.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - crispy - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:51 AM)McC Wrote: My bad. I must be in the wrong place. Coulda sworn I entered a thread about Kapernick, Luck and Dalton.
Meh..it was a troll thread anyways. Was expected to spin off into several different conversations.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:55 AM)McC Wrote: Well, I go back a dozen or so posts and i don't even see any of those three names mentioned, so you can see my confusion.
Eh, it's just the natural progression of a thread. Obviously debates about the individual QBs were going to come up, and from that different conversations stem.
Some people are throwing out the ol' "omg Trent Dilfer has a ring, so anybody can!11!!!!1!!!" logic of why teams just shouldn't care if their QB sucks or not. Some people are hard on Luck because he plays in such a "weak" division, but why aren't those same people ragging on Andy for playing in this abysmal version of the AFCN?
Meh. It happens. I don't mind when a Dalton thread gets slightly derailed into other topics after dealing with 4+ years of EVERY damn thread on the boards being derailed into an Andy discussion.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - Savagehenry54 - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Whacked Wrote: Luck = Major regression
Colin = Just got benched
AD = 4 playoffs in a row and 7-0 and leading the NFL in a few QB categories
YO AD Haters ....... Where u at?
/Thread
Why do the /thread thing that never works anyway. Consider this invitation to eat some crow to eat some crow accepted. I was never a full on hater but I def lost confidence in him after all the playoff debacles. Even in a not so good outing again Pitt he was still always in command and came through in the clutch at the end.
He has made dramatic improvement in his Manipulation of the pocket and overall field generalship if you will. Say what you will about other facets of the team in those playoff losses, that dude got overwhelmed mentally a d was clearly shook all four times.
I honestly believe that won't be a problem this year.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - bengalguy71 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Why does everybody always bring up the last decade, or the last 8 years or whatever random number they want to pick and choose when discussing the division since Andy has been here? WTF do the 2008 Ravens or 2005 Steelers have anything to do with Andy Dalton??
2011 - AFCN is likely the best division in the NFL. NFCN could be argued, but the AFCN gets it for sending 3 teams to the playoffs.
2012 - Easily could be argued as a push between the AFCN and NFCW. AFCN is hands down the best in the conference and have that year's SB champs.
2013 - We're the only team to go over .500 and make the playoffs, we don't even have the best division in the conference, let alone the NFL where the NFCW reigns supreme.
2014 - Back to another tough year where the AFCN sends 3 teams to the postseason where FOUR teams in the conference miss the playoffs at 9-7. What a crazy year for the AFC. Some of the other divisions like the NFCW still look good, but give it to the AFCN here again.
2015 - Womp womp, wooooooooommmmppppp. Baltimore sucks. Cleveland sucks. Pittsburgh is inconsistent as hell. Cincinnati is a top 5 team in the league. Not really a strong division, but I'll take being undefeated in a weaker division over being 9-7 in the ROUGH N TOUGH PHYSICAL AFCN!
People are silly trying to refute what I'm saying by posting links to something completely irrelevant to the conversation. Being realistic won't hurt you, I promise.
Don't be too quick to label the Ravens.
They were in every game they lost, and their worse loss was by 8 points to Arizona.
Close games like that, the loss of a Terrell Suggs could make a difference.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:16 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Don't be too quick to label the Ravens.
They were in every game they lost, and their worse loss was by 8 points to Arizona.
Close games like that, the loss of a Terrell Suggs could make a difference.
Absolutely, but the same can be said about many, many teams in the past 5 years that "weren't as bad as their record". But then that conversation gets crazy and people just argue over hypothetical situations and whatnot.
If we're simply going by team record, playoff appearances, playoff wins, strength of schedule, and other factual numbers, it's much easier to have a fluid discussion with something like this.
I do agree about the 2015 Ravens though, I don't think they necessarily "suck" outside of their W/L record. They haven't lost a single game by more than 1 score, so they can't be completely terrible.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:00 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Eh, it's just the natural progression of a thread. Obviously debates about the individual QBs were going to come up, and from that different conversations stem.
Some people are throwing out the ol' "omg Trent Dilfer has a ring, so anybody can!11!!!!1!!!" logic of why teams just shouldn't care if their QB sucks or not. Some people are hard on Luck because he plays in such a "weak" division, but why aren't those same people ragging on Andy for playing in this abysmal version of the AFCN?
Meh. It happens. I don't mind when a Dalton thread gets slightly derailed into other topics after dealing with 4+ years of EVERY damn thread on the boards being derailed into an Andy discussion.
Why do you have "weak" in quotation marks? Since Luck was drafted the AFC South is 89-133 while the AFC North is 117-105-1
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 12:54 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Brad Johnson
Doug Williams
Jim Plunkett
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Namath
Mark Rypien
I'd add Joe Theismann, Terry Bradshaw, and maybe Bob Greise to that list.....
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - SHRacerX - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 12:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no way I am writing off Kaepernick and Luck yet. I have seen both of them play at an elite level.
But i have to say i am glad that people are being more realistic about both of them. I remember when people around here acted like it was joke to even mention Luck and Dalton in the same sentence as if Luck had lead the league in passing and won a super bowl.
I'm not giving up on Luck, either, but people have to realize the horrible division he has played in and how poorly he has held up against the rest of the league. He is in year 4, and he is STILL a turnover machine. He is a classic example of people falling in love with his measurables (big guy, strong arm, mobile, etc.) and not objectively looking at his results.
I am not saying he is a dud, but he certainly isn't head-and-shoulders above the rest of the guys in his "era", such as Dalton, Newton, and Wilson.
It is somewhat funny to listen to people make excuses for his performance by hammering the performance of his offensive line. In the games I have seen, that offensive line looks pretty solid, but he is holding on to the ball way too long looking for something down the field. Even on first down! He has a solid back, great TEs and WRs, but his results are terrible this year. I'm sure he will rebound, and a lot of this likely has to do with his injuries. But, I am with you that it is nice to see people finally gain some perspective on the NFL's golden boy.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - CoCoNuT - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 09:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Luck = 3 playoff wins
Colin = 4 playoff wins
AD = 0 playoff wins
I don't think I'm an AD hater, but let's not get too terribly smug just yet.
Just for fun I would like to add one more random player to the list
Tebow = 1 playoff wins
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - fredtoast - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: People are silly trying to refute what I'm saying by posting links to something completely irrelevant to the conversation. Being realistic won't hurt you, I promise.
Which division has been the toughest during Dalton's career? I think that is what is most relevant to the conversation.
People like you who obsess over one half of one season miss the big picture. Were you jumping up and down and squealing that Brady was a bottom tier QB after his 2013 season?
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm not giving up on Luck, either, but people have to realize the horrible division he has played in and how poorly he has held up against the rest of the league. He is in year 4, and he is STILL a turnover machine. He is a classic example of people falling in love with his measurables (big guy, strong arm, mobile, etc.) and not objectively looking at his results.
I am not saying he is a dud, but he certainly isn't head-and-shoulders above the rest of the guys in his "era", such as Dalton, Newton, and Wilson.
It is somewhat funny to listen to people make excuses for his performance by hammering the performance of his offensive line. In the games I have seen, that offensive line looks pretty solid, but he is holding on to the ball way too long looking for something down the field. Even on first down! He has a solid back, great TEs and WRs, but his results are terrible this year. I'm sure he will rebound, and a lot of this likely has to do with his injuries. But, I am with you that it is nice to see people finally gain some perspective on the NFL's golden boy.
His numbers are great against the AFC South, average against the rest of the league. On the other hand, Dalton is pretty bad against the North and above average against the rest of the league.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - tigershrimp - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 09:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Luck = 3 playoff wins
Colin = 4 playoff wins
AD = 0 playoff wins
I don't think I'm an AD hater, but let's not get too terribly smug just yet.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:26 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Why do you have "weak" in quotation marks? Since Luck was drafted the AFC South is 89-133 while the AFC North is 117-105-1
Well, the Texans certainly haven't been awful every single year, but yeah, Tennessee and Jacksonville haven't been very good. I don't know how terribly "weak" a division is with 2 perennial contenders over the time span that we're discussing, that's all. They definitely haven't been as good as the AFCN in the past 4 years.
(11-04-2015, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Which division has been the toughest during Dalton's career? I think that is what is most relevant to the conversation.
People like you who obsess over one half of one season miss the big picture. Were you jumping up and down and squealing that Brady was a bottom tier QB after his 2013 season?
I'm not obsessing over one half of a season, and I'm not missing the big picture. I went year by year and gave my thoughts on the best division in the NFL during Dalton's career. I gave the AFCN 2 years and a push for a 3rd. Is that really that bad that you have to cry about it?
WTF does "squealing" over Brady have to do with literally anything right now? When did I ever say that Andy is a bottom tier QB? Ever? Where did I say the AFCN wasn't one of the best divisions over the past 4 years? I never have, so shut it and drop the strawman arguments. Why do you insist on looking like a total clown in every discussion? Use things I've actually said against me, stop makings shit up. You're so obnoxious sometimes. It's like you only read the single sentence that you quoted and didn't read the 10 other posts I've put in this thread alone. What the hell is your issue? Is reading and actually comprehending things too difficult for you?
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - fredtoast - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:38 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I went year by year and gave my thoughts on the best division in the NFL during Dalton's career. I gave the AFCN 2 years and a push for a 3rd. Is that really that bad that you have to cry about it?
Instead of year-by-year give me the sum total.
During Andy's career which division has been the toughest?
I am not the one crying and posting longs rants attacking anyone. I am just trying to get a straight answer.
And BTW it is kind of hard to understand your answer, but I am assuming that you did NOT say that Brady was a lower tier QB in 2013 just because he had one down season, correct?
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Instead of year-by-year give me the sum total.
During Andy's career which division has been the toughest?
I am not the one crying and posting longs rants attacking anyone. I am just trying to get a straight answer.
And BTW it is kind of hard to understand your answer, but I am assuming that you did NOT say that Brady was a lower tier QB in 2013 just because he had one down season, correct?
I did NOT say Brady was a lower tier QB over his career for having one down season. He did however, not have a great 2013.
The AFCN has been good over Andy's career, however, the division is not having a great 2015.
Comprehend, or do you need me to spell it out a dozen more ways? I figured the first few times would have been sufficient explanation.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - SHRacerX - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 12:33 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I think Luck will be fine. I do think he has been overrated, but I do think he has the skill set to become a great QB. It just seems some have annointed him way too soon. I'm not sold on Kaepernick.
Agreed on Luck and Kaep.
I don't mean to derail this thread to a completely different subject, but has anyone realized how many people have had such a significant decline at SF since Harbaugh's departure? And what of Michigan? They are back in the thick of things in his first season?
I think his scheme is more college-friendly and would likely get an NFL QB killed, but Kaep made it work and survived, in part, due to his size. It would appear that Kaep isn't adept at the traditional "read-and-react" QB play, but thrived in a simplified role. Philadelphia? It would make a lot of sense.
SF looks headed right back to the doldrums of the NFL, with Blaine Gabbert at the helm this week.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - fredtoast - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:46 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I did NOT say Brady was a lower tier QB over his career for having one down season. He did however, not have a great 2013.
The AFCN has been good over Andy's career, however, the division is not having a great 2015.
Comprehend, or do you need me to spell it out a dozen more ways? I figured the first few times would have been sufficient explanation.
Yes, I comprehend just fine.
When you look at the sum total of his entire career Andy Dalton has played in the toughest division in football during his career.
Right?
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:38 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Well, the Texans certainly haven't been awful every single year, but yeah, Tennessee and Jacksonville haven't been very good. I don't know how terribly "weak" a division is with 2 perennial contenders over the time span that we're discussing, that's all. They definitely haven't been as good as the AFCN in the past 4 years.
Since Luck has been in the league, here is the Texans record:
2012 12-4 playoffs
2013 2-14 1st pick in the draft
2014 9-7
2015 3-5
Nothing to brag about if you ask me.