(01-11-2022, 10:20 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It could definitely go a long way. I think they have a product that could be valuable, but I catch their mistakes from time-to-time and it makes me skeptical of what I am seeing. For instance, they credited Jonah Williams with a sack on this play. I've brought this up a couple of times since then, but it's wrong and having it affect his grade when it wasn't his assignment can be frustrating if you're trying to genuinely use those grades. 

(01-11-2022, 10:20 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It could definitely go a long way. I think they have a product that could be valuable, but I catch their mistakes from time-to-time and it makes me skeptical of what I am seeing. For instance, they credited Jonah Williams with a sack on this play. I've brought this up a couple of times since then, but it's wrong and having it affect his grade when it wasn't his assignment can be frustrating if you're trying to genuinely use those grades. 

(01-12-2022, 10:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm assuming you're saying it's wrong to give Jonah the sack because he didn't even try to engage the guy who sacked Burrow?
If so, who should that sack go to?
Williams was the closest OL to that defender.

(01-12-2022, 10:44 AM)Wyche Wrote: Looks to me like someone missed an assignment. Jonah was clearly blocking down on that play (if it's the same one I remember). Now, it may have been him that blocked the wrong guy, but he did not even try as you mentioned. That looks like a back or TE didn't get the call right....or Jonah possibly.

(01-10-2022, 11:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengal "fans" disliked Lawson more than the rest of the league.

(01-12-2022, 10:36 AM)Wyche Wrote: Kinda like using their grades to endorse certain former position coaches.

(01-12-2022, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's what I'm not sure of.
But someone clearly didn't bother blocking him, and he came in untouched.
So someone messed up.
It could have been Jonah.

(01-12-2022, 10:49 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Who disliked Lawson? Everyone was pissed when the Bengals didn't bring him back. 

Do you just make this shit up? 

(01-11-2022, 04:41 PM)Nepanyrush Wrote: Yes, Ja"Marr Chase has 11. But for some context, Travis Kelse, Deebo Samuel, and DJ Moore have 10 and even Cooper Kupp has 8 -- not a huge gap. And in 2020, Diontae Johnson had 13 and in 2019 Edelman had 13.

(01-12-2022, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There's no TE on that side on that play, and Mixon ran right.
So it wouldn't be either of them.
It would have had to have been either Jonah or Spain who missed that block.

If you're saying perhaps Mixon messed up by running right instead of left, there's no way someone not on the team would know that.
So they have to assess the play based on what they see, and in this case, one can rightfully assume one of the OL blocked the wrong guy.

(01-11-2022, 06:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you really, truly don't understand how this works, that's a you problem. You're wasting your time trying to cancel it based on what (little) you understand about it. 

(01-12-2022, 10:52 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, although that's rarely the case....not to trying to show bias as an ex lineman....lol. Often enough, TEs,WRs, and RBs can't hear the play call in the huddle....or hear it wrong I should say the farther away from the QB they are. Also, they'll have a couple responsibilities on plays and a blocking assignment is what gets forgotten. Whereas the beef has one job....block. 

(01-12-2022, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There's no TE on that side on that play, and Mixon ran right.
So it wouldn't be either of them.
It would have had to have been either Jonah or Spain who missed that block.

If you're saying perhaps Mixon messed up by running right instead of left, there's no way someone not on the team would know that.
So they have to assess the play based on what they see, and in this case, one can rightfully assume one of the OL blocked the wrong guy.

(01-12-2022, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I completely understand that people are given assignments and so it may seem like they blocked the wrong guy but they actually did block the one they were assigned.
This goes back to how I wish they graded play calling too.
If the play calling dictated that, then that's on the playcaller.
But since A) We don't fully know the assignments, and B) they don't grade the playcaller, you can reasonably assume that an OL (Jonah or Spain) could have missed their block.

(01-12-2022, 10:38 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This is an interesting thread to follow. Contextualizing how a person evaluates a player's talent is important and this thread shows there are many ways to look at on field success. We have traditional back-of-the-football card stats, advanced metrics, PFF ratings, the 'ole eye test, and I assume other tools for fans to use.

I don't want to go overboard with a diatribe suggesting we, as forum posters, have a sense of responsibility to better clarify our arguments when using any of the frameworks I mentioned for discussing a player; however, it does seem important to contextualize one's view to ensure everyone is having the same discussion.

Chase is sweet bro, yard and TD records or Chase is sorta sweet bro, PFF rating lower than Tee is like having two separate discussions where arguments conflict and become clouded.

PFF sure does give a vibe from time to time as being made up nonsense, I contend.

(01-12-2022, 10:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: The more I watch that, the more it looks like it's on Williams. I mean, Spain goes inside to help Hopkins, and Jonah kinda....follows him?

(01-12-2022, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I completely understand that people are given assignments and so it may seem like they blocked the wrong guy but they actually did block the one they were assigned.
This goes back to how I wish they graded play calling too.
If the play calling dictated that, then that's on the playcaller.
But since A) We don't fully know the assignments, and B) they don't grade the playcaller, you can reasonably assume that an OL (Jonah or Spain) could have missed their block.

(01-12-2022, 11:01 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It kinda looks like Williams is almost tasked with blocking two guys - The edge guy and Chris Jones.
Jonah looked like he tried to get just a bit of a hand on the edge guy and then try to bounce over to Jones or something, but Jones was already past him.
As you said, Spain went right to help Hopkins, didn't even try to engage Jones.

Regardless, no one really blocked Jones, so it's either on Jonah or Spain.

(01-12-2022, 11:00 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: IMO you need to take into account both traditional stats and PFF grades. Stats tell us everything we already know. PFF ratings tell us things that we don't pick up on during games. Run blocking, drops, mistakes, etc. 

Take both into account to make your decision. 

Is PFF weighted, though? Because I can damn sure tell you what Chase did receiving against the Chiefs should be weighted higher than some poor run blocking grade or a dropped pass during the game. This is where I get confused.