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+--- Thread: We'll find out soon (/thread-31212.html)
RE: We'll find out soon - higgy100 - 02-16-2022
(02-16-2022, 11:10 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It amazes me that you don’t realize that the inordinate amount of hits makes the likelihood that he gets hurt go up tremendously. The bottom line is that the FO just let the roster really dilapidate. Everybody in the organization got too comfortable with losing. Luckily the younger Browns are able to exert more influence on Mike. I think they will address the OL. They need to take a numbers approach. They need to get several in FA even if on prove it 1 year deals as well as some solid veterans. They need to draft several as well. Even resign Spain and Reiff. Then make it the survival of the best.
Yep. Totally ignorant thinking that how someone is built or how tough they are decides injury. Yes, it can decide pain tolerance and management in how how much someone can tolerate but structural damage doesn't discriminate. Sacks and hits add up and exponentially increase the risk.
Look, this little Bengals thingy the fans and mainly the Brown/Blackburn family just witnessed the past month created a positive mass brand exposure to the organization and the city like they've never seen and I'm quite sure Katie and family could get use to this more. They will do what needs to get done. Whether that is measured in SB's, etc., who knows, as that takes forces many times beyond just x's and o's but they realize this is a great time to cross T's and dot I's.
RE: We'll find out soon - Au165 - 02-16-2022
This is a strange narrative to me. The FO doesn't see a weakness and attempt to address it? We did have the worst defense in the NFL a couple years ago and now it just carried us to the SB. The issue is they tried addressing the O line and it didn't work out, if they take Humphrey over Carman or Trey Smith over D'Ante Smith we may be holding a Lombardi right now. If Riley Reiff doesn't get hurt that may have been just enough to be holding a Lombardi right now.
We don't want to keep getting the QB hit, but frankly if Logan Wilson doesn't get called for PI or Vonn Bell is 6 inches to his right on the Stafford no look we are talking about a SB and how buying the defense was the smartest thing ever.
RE: We'll find out soon - Soonerpeace - 02-16-2022
(02-16-2022, 11:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Let's not forget the rule changes made to protect the QB. Can't go low, can't hit em high, can't dive at them, can't body slam them to the ground. Yes, we don't want Burrow to get sacked so much and sure, maybe the likelihood of him getting hurt goes up with each sack, but honestly, he's more prone to get hurt everytime he runs for a first down or whatnot then by taking a bunch of sacks where they wrap their arms around him and hug him vociferously.
I know the focus on revamping the OL is on protecting Burrow but if they can get the running game going with all the double teaming of our receivers and Mixon this offense goes scorched earth on teams. If they have to guard against the run then Chase and Higgins can’t be double teamed.
RE: We'll find out soon - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-19-2022
(02-16-2022, 10:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: tough doesnt have everything to do with it the body can only take so much we were sure we were gonna fix the OL last year too after it got his knee shredded
True, not saying it was the right way to go about it. I would of put more emphasis on the OL in Free Agency myself last
Offseason but we went to the Superbowl with what we did and should of won it all with what we had if we had a proper
game plan taking advantage of the Rams weakness on Defense.
Go and tell Burrow to change up his game, he is going to get hit the way he plays. If his Receivers are covered he holds
onto the ball so they can get open and he does the Burrow magic. He is going to get hit even with the best OL is all I am
saying. Of course the OL needs at least 2 more veteran top tier players. We all know it and the FO knows it. Get it done.
RE: We'll find out soon - M.W. - 02-19-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We really never recovered from whiffing on Ced/Fisher/Price. Hit on 1 of them even and things look at lot better.
The only good news is that they were not high priced FA like the waste of space Waynes. So they didn't the bank. I am all for signing 2 top guys for the O line and drafting the best one available in RD1 or RD2 or both. Improving the O line would improve our defense too. They get winded on the constant 3 and outs.
RE: We'll find out soon - Joelist - 02-20-2022
Really all we can do at this point is wait and see. If they hit the ground running and we come away with RT and RG who are starter quality and still in prime then we know. If they sit on their hands we also know - just something different.
RE: We'll find out soon - grampahol - 02-20-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I pointed out that if we don't draft John Ross we don't have Burrow or Chase either. It's like one of them butterfly effect things. Or it's like that song where Garth Brooks tells Jesus he's glad that Jesus didn't magically make his high school girlfriend marry him, or something.
Hell, if our o-line doesn't get Burrow killed in his rookie year or Fat Randy can make a 6 yard FG in week 1 we probably win a few more games and don't get Chase. A lotta bad stuff you don't want to be thankful for can lead to good results.
If player X hadn't sprained his tongue licking an ice cream cone we wouldn't have gotten Burrow or Chase too.. Ironically this team with it's horrible O-line still managed to make it to the super bowl.. Just so it sinks in a bit.. this team with it's horrible O-line still managed to make it to the super bowl.. and then only lost arguably on a lousy call by a referee.. Imagine had they won the game.. There would be almost zero argument about the Oline other than the number of sacks.. Remember, sacks only count if you lose. If you win nobody cares..
I'm all for upgrading the line, but let's not pretend there's any kind of guarantee they ever get back to the show by spending big on an Oline..
RE: We'll find out soon - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-21-2022
(02-20-2022, 06:09 PM)Joelist Wrote: Really all we can do at this point is wait and see. If they hit the ground running and we come away with RT and RG who are starter quality and still in prime then we know. If they sit on their hands we also know - just something different.
Yeah, we will know a lot in about a month how serious we are about that elusive Lombardi...
RE: We'll find out soon - casear2727 - 02-21-2022
(02-20-2022, 06:41 PM)grampahol Wrote: If player X hadn't sprained his tongue licking an ice cream cone we wouldn't have gotten Burrow or Chase too.. Ironically this team with it's horrible O-line still managed to make it to the super bowl.. Just so it sinks in a bit.. this team with it's horrible O-line still managed to make it to the super bowl.. and then only lost arguably on a lousy call by a referee.. Imagine had they won the game.. There would be almost zero argument about the Oline other than the number of sacks.. Remember, sacks only count if you lose. If you win nobody cares..
I'm all for upgrading the line, but let's not pretend there's any kind of guarantee they ever get back to the show by spending big on an Oline..
"Imagine had they won the game.. There would be almost zero argument about the Oline other than the number of sacks.."
There is no way this is true. People here are not that dumb. This team went to the Super Bowl in spite of the oline. 9 sacks vs Titans, and KC actually had more pressures than Tennessee, but Joe got away.
Win or Lose this Oline is awful. A unit doesnt lead the league in sacks and set playoff records with sacks and be considered ok in any way. Any poster on this site that would argue against getting a much better oline because we had won, is lacking basic football comprehension.
We have had Joe 2 seasons. And thus far, Joe has began both off seasons rehabbing due to terrible oline play.
RE: We'll find out soon - Shake n Blake - 02-21-2022
Was looking at the PFF top 50 free agents, and the ones that stood out to me were:
(These contract numbers are PFF projections)
T - Derron Armstead - Saints - 3 years, 60 million
T - Orlando Brown Jr - Chiefs - 5 years, 105 million
T - Duane Brown - Seahawks - 2 years, $20 million
C - Ryan Jenson - Bucs - 3 years, 39 million
C - Ben Jones - Titans - 2 years, 20 million
G - Brandon Scherff - Commanders - 3 years, $50 million
G - Laken Tomlinson - 49ers - 3 years, $27 million
G - Connor Williams - Cowboys - 3 years, $20 million
Williams or Tomlinson would be great additions.
I'd also consider Duane Brown. He's 36 but had an 80 overall grade last year and could be our Whitworth. Obviously this wouldn't be enough, though. Bring back Spain maybe? Use the #31 pick on a Tackle? Maybe we could afford one of these Centers as well?
RE: We'll find out soon - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 02:33 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Was looking at the PFF top 50 free agents, and the ones that stood out to me were:
(These contract numbers are PFF projections)
T - Derron Armstead - Saints - 3 years, 60 million
T - Orlando Brown Jr - Chiefs - 5 years, 105 million
T - Duane Brown - Seahawks - 2 years, $20 million
C - Ryan Jenson - Bucs - 3 years, 39 million
C - Ben Jones - Titans - 2 years, 20 million
G - Brandon Scherff - Commanders - 3 years, $50 million
G - Laken Tomlinson - 49ers - 3 years, $27 million
G - Connor Williams - Cowboys - 3 years, $20 million
Williams or Tomlinson would be great additions.
I'd also consider Duane Brown. He's 36 but had an 80 overall grade last year and could be our Whitworth. Obviously this wouldn't be enough, though. Bring back Spain maybe? Use the #31 pick on a Tackle? Maybe we could afford one of these Centers as well?
Armstead, Tomlinson and bring back Spain would be a pretty dang good start...
RE: We'll find out soon - QueenCity - 02-21-2022
If we want Joe for 10-15 years you field a great o-line from here on out. If Joe is who he and the fans think he is then we can survive with less talent elsewhere.
RE: We'll find out soon - THE PISTONS - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 03:22 PM)QueenCity Wrote: If we want Joe for 10-15 years you field a great o-line from here on out. If Joe is who he and the fans think he is then we can survive with less talent elsewhere.
Well...and you generally see a certain model from successful teams.
Elite QB, Good offensive line, young RB paid like $2 million or less, 1 Top-end WR, then 2-3 younger guys that aren't paid a lot, then TE is all over the place. But, that's the model you see. Money invested in QB, OLine, and WR1.
RE: We'll find out soon - casear2727 - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 04:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...and you generally see a certain model from successful teams.
Elite QB, Good offensive line, young RB paid like $2 million or less, 1 Top-end WR, then 2-3 younger guys that aren't paid a lot, then TE is all over the place. But, that's the model you see. Money invested in QB, OLine, and WR1.
This is close to what I have been saying.
With an excellent oline we should never ever see WR3 getting $10M per year or RB1 at $11-13M per year again, as long as we have Joe. We could literally draft a stud RB once every 5 years in the 1st round and let him walk at the end of his contract or deal him prior, only paying rookie scale while in stripes.
I do think we can make it work to keep Tee, assuming he is ok with a #2 role. Otherwise get the stud TE.
RE: We'll find out soon - Shake n Blake - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 04:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...and you generally see a certain model from successful teams.
Elite QB, Good offensive line, young RB paid like $2 million or less, 1 Top-end WR, then 2-3 younger guys that aren't paid a lot, then TE is all over the place. But, that's the model you see. Money invested in QB, OLine, and WR1.
Spot on. This is why I was talking about Mixon's big contract recently.
The championship teams we've seen through the years typically don't spend on a "bell cow". That's pre-2010s thinking. RBs are usually taken in the draft and dropped after their rookie deals. You often see tandems instead of one guy getting 350 touches.
You need an elite QB and those eat up roughly 20% of the cap. So you have to preserve somewhere, while also protecting that QB and giving him enough weapons to succeed.
RB is the best position to save $ on. They don't age well and get injured more than any position probably. You can also cycle through secondary receiving options.
Money should go (1) QB, (2) O-line, (3) Elite WR1 or a combo of lesser but still good weapons. RB is an afterthought.
RE: We'll find out soon - KillerGoose - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 06:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Spot on. This is why I was talking about Mixon's big contract recently.
The championship teams we've seen through the years typically don't spend on a "bell cow". That's pre-2010s thinking. RBs are usually taken in the draft and dropped after their rookie deals. You often see tandems instead of one guy getting 350 touches.
You need an elite QB and those eat up roughly 20% of the cap. So you have to preserve somewhere, while also protecting that QB and giving him enough weapons to succeed.
RB is the best position to save $ on. They don't age well and get injured more than any position probably. You can also cycle through secondary receiving options.
Money should go (1) QB, (2) O-line, (3) Elite WR1 or a combo of lesser but still good weapons. RB is an afterthought.
Spot on, Shake. I like Mixon, he's a really talented back. However, he isn't very important to the teams success. Most RBs aren't. I would be completely fine if they traded him and split touches between someone like Evans/another receiving back (bring Gio back?). In my mind, a receiving back who can also pass block decently is a great asset. Most RBs are able to run the ball at a fine enough level, but many RBs can't catch or block well.
RE: We'll find out soon - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-21-2022
(02-21-2022, 06:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Spot on. This is why I was talking about Mixon's big contract recently.
The championship teams we've seen through the years typically don't spend on a "bell cow". That's pre-2010s thinking. RBs are usually taken in the draft and dropped after their rookie deals. You often see tandems instead of one guy getting 350 touches.
You need an elite QB and those eat up roughly 20% of the cap. So you have to preserve somewhere, while also protecting that QB and giving him enough weapons to succeed.
RB is the best position to save $ on. They don't age well and get injured more than any position probably. You can also cycle through secondary receiving options.
Money should go (1) QB, (2) O-line, (3) Elite WR1 or a combo of lesser but still good weapons. RB is an afterthought.
True, not a good idea to overpay for a RB even if he is really good like Mixon. Save the money for your QB and OL and rotate
your RB's instead of wearing the really good RB you got out like we are with Mixon. He has a few more years on his contract
so I hope he holds up well, but it won't last if we keep giving him so many carries. Spread'em around.
(02-21-2022, 07:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Spot on, Shake. I like Mixon, he's a really talented back. However, he isn't very important to the teams success. Most RBs aren't. I would be completely fine if they traded him and split touches between someone like Evans/another receiving back (bring Gio back?). In my mind, a receiving back who can also pass block decently is a great asset. Most RBs are able to run the ball at a fine enough level, but many RBs can't catch or block well.
I am fine with this if it means our OL is upgraded for sure and you have to have RB's that block well.
Doesn't matter how good of a runner you are if you cannot pick up the blitz.
One thing about Mixon is he got better at this last season. Hoping Evans can keep improving in this aspect. I really like Evans.
Gio? I doubt he is around much longer...
RE: We'll find out soon - Bengalbug - 02-22-2022
(02-21-2022, 02:33 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Was looking at the PFF top 50 free agents, and the ones that stood out to me were:
(These contract numbers are PFF projections)
T - Derron Armstead - Saints - 3 years, 60 million
T - Orlando Brown Jr - Chiefs - 5 years, 105 million
T - Duane Brown - Seahawks - 2 years, $20 million
C - Ryan Jenson - Bucs - 3 years, 39 million
C - Ben Jones - Titans - 2 years, 20 million
G - Brandon Scherff - Commanders - 3 years, $50 million
G - Laken Tomlinson - 49ers - 3 years, $27 million
G - Connor Williams - Cowboys - 3 years, $20 million
Williams or Tomlinson would be great additions.
I'd also consider Duane Brown. He's 36 but had an 80 overall grade last year and could be our Whitworth. Obviously this wouldn't be enough, though. Bring back Spain maybe? Use the #31 pick on a Tackle? Maybe we could afford one of these Centers as well?
I am totally on board with Duane brown. He can bridge the gap for us and make 2 positions better with Jonah going to LG or RT. Then grab a Gaurd and you have 3 spots locked down. I’d almost consider doubling down and grabbing Reiff as an insurance policy for the t position.
In the event of an injury, you are somewhat protected, and then your camp battles can settle out the rest.
Brown, Jones and Williams (and reiff off the bench) would be a win in my book. Bengals don’t need the best OL, just give us middle of the pack.
RE: We'll find out soon - Bengalbug - 02-22-2022
(02-21-2022, 07:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Spot on, Shake. I like Mixon, he's a really talented back. However, he isn't very important to the teams success. Most RBs aren't. I would be completely fine if they traded him and split touches between someone like Evans/another receiving back (bring Gio back?). In my mind, a receiving back who can also pass block decently is a great asset. Most RBs are able to run the ball at a fine enough level, but many RBs can't catch or block well.
I tend to agree, but mixon is really really good. With even a decent OL, he may challenge the rushing yards, which is good and bad. Good in the sense he is amazing, bad in the sense he is getting worn down. I also think his swagger and energy is great for this team. I’d be more on board trading Boyd and getting a slot guy who is 80% of Boyd before
Letting go of mixon. In a perfect world, we keep them all
And do some creative cap manipulation to take advantage of burrows cap hit not coming into effect for 3 years.
RE: We'll find out soon - Bengalbug - 02-22-2022
(02-21-2022, 06:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Spot on. This is why I was talking about Mixon's big contract recently.
The championship teams we've seen through the years typically don't spend on a "bell cow". That's pre-2010s thinking. RBs are usually taken in the draft and dropped after their rookie deals. You often see tandems instead of one guy getting 350 touches.
You need an elite QB and those eat up roughly 20% of the cap. So you have to preserve somewhere, while also protecting that QB and giving him enough weapons to succeed.
RB is the best position to save $ on. They don't age well and get injured more than any position probably. You can also cycle through secondary receiving options.
Money should go (1) QB, (2) O-line, (3) Elite WR1 or a combo of lesser but still good weapons. RB is an afterthought.
Agree on all fronts, but we have 3 (maybe 4?) years before burrows (and chase) contract hits in. This team will look a lot different. We won’t ever have the luxury of a Joe mixon, outside of a rookie deal, for the duration of joe burrows career. Creative cap manipulation can do a lot. Both boyd and mixon are gone in 3 years.