(02-17-2022, 12:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.  Spain currently counts zero dollars against our cap.  If we pay $6 million for his replacement then that is $6 million off our available cap space.

(02-17-2022, 01:18 PM)Go Cards Wrote: He may have been overpaid. Know many on here are big on Spain but not a huge fan personally. 

Would take him back as depth but if he had to start Id be like 

Quinton is traveling tonight on a plane 
I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain
And I can see Quinton waving goodbye
Oh wait it looks like Quinton staying, must be the clouds in my eyes, sigh

(02-17-2022, 10:42 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This is always going to be Zac's approach when talking about on field play, his players, and his coaching staff. Zac maintains a calm, collected demeanor and maintains professionalism when answering questions. He doesn't show much emotion and places accountability on himself above others. It's admirable, but can be a tad frustrating when wanting to know more specific details about what's going on with the team. I like Zac's approach to leadership so I'm ready to roll with how he publicly communicates for the long haul.

(02-16-2022, 01:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Absolutely

Williams may be the best of the bunch but even he isn't anything to write home about. We need a major retooling of the Oline.

And I agree with others, piano man isn't wrong.

(02-17-2022, 04:00 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: When this exact thing was said several months ago, it was met with so much negativity and heat.

The guy is pretty...meh...and average. Which for a top 10 pick is absolutely unacceptable and basically a wasted pick. When you take a guy that high you expect a certain level of production, not average or just above.

(02-17-2022, 04:49 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: You should study draft outcomes more because this post is ridiculous.  First, recent top 11 picks (he wasn’t actually a top 10) are out of FB altogether, Greg Robinson, Luke Joekel; guys who were forced to moved inside; Ereck Flowers, DJ Fluker; or guys that are rated worse Jedrick Wills, Mike McGlinchey, Jake Matthews &Taylor Lewan.  Only 5 are rated higher (6 if you include Ronnie Stanley).  So that is a pretty normal outcome.  That doesn’t count if position class was high or not (it was not).  

It is very hard to replace even “average” tackles in todays NFL. Really hard.  In his defense I would point out that several OL evaluators don’t think he is only average.  And he still young and he is making up for lost time after missing 22 games. The Bengals have a terrible record of OL drafting.  Can we chill about the one positive outcome we did have?

(02-17-2022, 12:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.  Spain currently counts zero dollars against our cap.  If we pay $6 million for his replacement then that is $6 million off our available cap space.

(02-17-2022, 05:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sweet...so we should be happy with average because it is the best option we currently have...that sounds like typical Bengal logic and thinking.

He is replacable and upgradable and the team should be looking for the best 5 guys to keep the elite QB they drafted upright. If he started the year bad and increased his play across the season, I'd buy the making up for lost time narrative but some of his worst games were later in the year. He isn't a franchise LT and when you have a weapon like Burrow you sure as shit better have two guys that can keep edge rushers off of him on a consistant basis.

I also like how you ignored the pick 11 the year prior in your breaking down drafts.. Minkah Fitzpatrick. Safe to say that pick was a hit. Year before that at 11 some guy named Lattimore. That is the level of production you are looking for when you invest a 1st round pick in a guy, a guy who changes your franchise, Williams hasn't come close to being that type of player.

(02-18-2022, 03:28 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: “average “ is a big thing you you.  Brandon Thorn, Lance Zierlen, Duke Manyweather and quite a few others don’t consider Jonah to be average and neither do I. I think you have it wrong.

I would love nothing more to have franchise tackles on both edges.  But unless you are going to “weird science” one into creation, where do we get one?

The only point I agree with with is that Jonah fell off late in the season,  it was predictable.  Often times college players talk of hitting a wall when the season goes 16/17 games long. It’s pretty common. Jonah had played in just 10 games in two years.  He’ll learn.

Minkah Fitzpatrick, Marcus Lattimore???  I at first thought that was sarcasm but now I know it sailed a thousand miles over your head. My list  by wasn’t about the history of pick 11’s but of all OL picked 1-11 for the last 10 years.  By that criteria, Jonah does not look like a bust or average at all.

(02-17-2022, 01:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's probably below average overall, but on a bad line he looks like one of the better ones.

(02-17-2022, 05:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sweet...so we should be happy with average because it is the best option we currently have...that sounds like typical Bengal logic and thinking.

(02-18-2022, 03:48 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: No where did I call him a bust.

But to act like he is a franchise LT is a bigger mistake then calling him a bust. 

I'm going to let you in on a little secret about Brandon Thorn, Lance Zierlen, Mel Kiper, and all the cats that are like them. This information is from my days of doing radio and meeting actual NFL front office executives, guys who were paid a ton of money to scout players. This informtation is why I laugh at people who say "Well I talked to (insert twitter guy) and he said this guy is the best." 

Ready... Anyone who is actual good at scouting NFL talent and has a real eye for it, is being paid a ton of money to do it for an NFL franchise or NFL network or affiliated NFL sources. People who are really good at it, aren't giving away their opinion for free on the internet, via youtube, twitter, etc. People who are skilled don't need to hype themselves on the net and don't give away their knowledge for free. Again, this is from actual NFL employees. "The people out there on the net trying to break down plays and players throw out so many opinions that there are right often enough that people forget how often they are wrong. That's why they have a day job and an opinion versus doing it for a living."

Stop putting your blind faith in twitter guy.

(02-18-2022, 05:15 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: So these aren’t some random dudes in the twitterverse.  These guys are the real thing.  For someone that his whole life thinking about OL, I approve.  You are out of your element here.  Just let it go.

(02-17-2022, 04:00 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: When this exact thing was said several months ago, it was met with so much negativity and heat.

The guy is pretty...meh...and average. Which for a top 10 pick is absolutely unacceptable and basically a wasted pick. When you take a guy that high you expect a certain level of production, not average or just above.

(02-17-2022, 05:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sweet...so we should be happy with average because it is the best option we currently have...that sounds like typical Bengal logic and thinking.

He is replacable and upgradable and the team should be looking for the best 5 guys to keep the elite QB they drafted upright. If he started the year bad and increased his play across the season, I'd buy the making up for lost time narrative but some of his worst games were later in the year. He isn't a franchise LT and when you have a weapon like Burrow you sure as shit better have two guys that can keep edge rushers off of him on a consistant basis.

I also like how you ignored the pick 11 the year prior in your breaking down drafts.. Minkah Fitzpatrick. Safe to say that pick was a hit. Year before that at 11 some guy named Lattimore. That is the level of production you are looking for when you invest a 1st round pick in a guy, a guy who changes your franchise, Williams hasn't come close to being that type of player.

(02-18-2022, 05:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No team could afford to go into free agency and add the 5 best offensive lineman.

Generally, teams have cap space...because they have a lot of free agents. We don't have any high priced guys retiring. And we have guys like Bates/Ogunjobi/Hill that will be due for sizeable raises.

As far as Minkah Fitzpatrick...the Dolphins moved him from CB to Safety.  Plus, he kind of underperformed in Miami and got traded to the Steelers. He makes some big plays there, but he also takes some risks and gets beat.