(05-26-2015, 02:14 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: He did, and no one denies it.  Gruden was a pass happy OC, and Andy's statistical numbers benefitted immensely.  It was easily Andy's best year, and also quite possibly the best he will ever have.

(05-26-2015, 03:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: He threw for a bunch of yards a time or two, great. He threw for a lot of TDs once, that is impressive for sure. It will become a bit less impressive if the years go on without replicating it though. When is the last time a one hit wonder was remembered unless the run came in the playoffs? I don't know how 1 year of a couple of decent stats outweighs all of the negatives. It's not like he's been lighting the league on fire and no one has noticed. He had a couple of impressive stats one year but he had other stats that were so bad that they brought his ratings down even with 33 TD passes and over 4k yards.

I'm not sure if there even were any QBs to start their career that way, but forget my exact numbers that I've been using as random examples. People have been sooo focused on my numbers and irrelevant parts of my posts and completely missing my points.

If Andy played just a bit better in the regular season, IMO his perception around the league would be different. If he were a consensus top 10 QB yet struggled to win a playoff game, people would look at him differently. He'd still have his critics, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is right now. I did mention earlier that a one hit wonder in the regular season isn't remembered, but I'm talking as if he played well for a few straight years but struggled in the playoffs. Not many people thought Ryan, Romo, or Rivers were crappy QBs for the sole reason that they were impressive for a handful of years in the regular season. Some of these guys got labeled as not being able to win in the playoffs, but they absolutely got/get more respect than Andy. That's my point. Andy would definitely get more respect if he performed better in the regular season, and I think you'd see a LOT more people that believe in him to get over the playoff hump as well.

Mediocre regular seasons + crap playoffs = little hope
Good regular seasons + crap playoffs = more hope than just a little

That's my point.

(05-26-2015, 06:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brady was ranked 17th in 2013.

(05-26-2015, 07:20 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote:  The Brown family can walk away from his contract after this year.  They are not going to continue to pay him the type of money he's making without at least a playoff win, IMO.  

(05-27-2015, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is the projected list of starting AFC QBs in the NFL for 2015:

Phillip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Peyton Manning
Derik Carr
Alex Smith
Ben Rothlisberger
Joe Flacco
Josh McCown
Blake Bortles
Bobby Hoyer
Andy Dalton

This is the list of those with at least 4 years as a starter (min 10 games) that did not achieve a passer rating of 90 or higher in at least 1 of those 1st 4 years:

Andy Dalton

(05-27-2015, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is the projected list of starting AFC QBs in the NFL for 2015:

Phillip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Peyton Manning
Derik Carr
Alex Smith
Ben Rothlisberger
Joe Flacco
Josh McCown
Blake Bortles
Bobby Hoyer
Andy Dalton

This is the list of those with at least 4 years as a starter (min 10 games) that did not achieve a passer rating of 90 or higher in at least 1 of those 1st 4 years:

Andy Dalton

(05-27-2015, 03:55 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Tom Brady didn't have a 90+ rating until his 5th year in the league
Matt Cassel didn't have a 90+ rating until his 6th year in the league
Derek Carr hasn't had a 90+ rating season yet
Alex Smith didn't have a 90+ rating season until his 6th year in the league
Josh McCown hasn't had a 90+ rating with your min 10 game start
Blake Bortles hasn't had a 90+ rating season yet
Brian Hoyer hasn't had a 90+ rating season yet
Carson Palmer is in the NFC, but the person you didn't name was E.J. Manuel, and he didn't have a 90+ rating season yet
You listed Tom Brady twice, and you didn't name Geno Smith who didn't have a 90+ rating season yet

(05-26-2015, 05:23 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If he didn't make it his first 2 years but still had winning records and then made it the last 2 years with the same results, the narrative would be wholly different on Dalton.

(05-27-2015, 04:17 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: He is basically a victim of overachieving his first couple of years.  Had the Bengals not made the playoffs in 2011 or 2012, I don't think anyone would have been all that surprised by it coming off a 4-12 season and all and essentially starting over on offense with a new QB, OC, and #1 WR.

(05-27-2015, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose reading is difficult. Go back and read what I wrote.

(05-27-2015, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose reading is difficult. Go back and read what I wrote. My bad on EJ and Geno, I corrected the first list and amazingly, it didn't change the 2nd

(05-27-2015, 06:58 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Let's make another list of starting AFC QBs

Phillip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Marcus Mariota
Geno Smith
Peyton Manning
Derek Carr
Alex Smith
Ben Rothlisberger
Joe Flacco
Josh McCown
Blake Bortles
Brian Hoyer
Andy Dalton

List of starting AFC QBs who threw 99+ TDs in their first 4 years

Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton

Shoot let's just do everyone who's a NFL starting QB who threw 99+ TDs in their first 4 years

Peyton Manning
Andy Dalton

(05-27-2015, 08:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can we do INTs next?

(05-27-2015, 08:15 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: We can do yards after that too

(05-27-2015, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..or we could just do passer rating and list all that didn't break 90 in their first 4 years as a starter and not cherry pick different stats. It pretty much includes all that stuff

(05-27-2015, 08:54 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: So you get to cherry pick a made up stat, and tell me not to cherry pick legit stats... Seems fair

(05-27-2015, 09:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What "made up" stat did I cherry pick?

(05-27-2015, 09:16 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: QBR is a made up stat. You can't show me QBR on the field, but I can show you TDs, INTs, competions, and incompletions. You only picking QBR with very specific variables is cherry picking even more so than most people do.