(01-18-2023, 05:34 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'll 2nd that 

The elite QB probably gives you a couple regular season wins. But when you get into the playoffs that mediocre roster usually shows up, in a bad way. 

I hope Joe will sign a reasonable deal. But I don't expect him to play for elite QB peanuts. Brady's Xwife made more money than he did. Don't think Joe has that luxury? 

(01-18-2023, 04:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying his ability to elevate guys hasn't truly been tested. Chase, Higgins and Boyd would be a fantastic group anywhere. So long as the QB isn't terrible. This defense is great on their own and has saved Burrow on numerous occasions.

Once Burrow gets $50 million per, then his ability to elevate a weaker roster will start to be tested. I think he could lead us to the playoffs with a cast of poor players, but Super Bowl? I doubt it. History shows that very few bad rosters make the Super Bowl, and even fewer win it.

I doubt I could come up with even 1 example of a championship team that was totally carried by the QB alone.

Talk of culture is easy when the team is winning the way it is. We said the culture was changed 10 years ago. Until it wasn't.

(01-18-2023, 04:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals are down 3 starting OL and our CB. That is significant. You mentioned Bills being down 2 starters. I may be wrong, but KC may not have any starters out for the year.

Injuries can and do play a role in trying to win 4 games, 3 playoff games and then the Super Bowl.

(01-18-2023, 04:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The player's union should have no beef if any player decides to take less money for a long term contract. Why do they care? The cap is based on spending enough money. How the Bengals or any team decide to pay individuals is irrelevant as long as the team spends the cap money.

I have no idea what Joe will demand. I look at Mahommes and Allen and they did not break the bank. Rodgers is on his third contract, so not a comparison. He is also a former Super Bowl winner and league MVP 3 times.

(01-18-2023, 06:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Eh?

Patrick Mahomes became the highest paid player in the NFL when he signed his extension.
Josh Allen became the 2nd highest paid player in the NFL when he signed his extension.

I think in Mahomes' will eventually will end up looking like a big bargain simply because it was a 10 year deal and we'll see a lot of other QBs pass him up over that long contract. They both got their money big time, though. Mahomes' cap numbers finally jumped up and they had to move on from Tyreek Hill and will probably have to make some more moves before next year, too. Also next year, Allen's cap number jumps up and we'll have to see what it costs the Bills in players.

So if Burrow follows Mahomes and Allen's move, he will either become the highest paid ($50.5m/yr or more) or the second highest paid ($49-50m/yr).

(01-18-2023, 04:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The player's union should have no beef if any player decides to take less money for a long term contract. Why do they care? The cap is based on spending enough money. How the Bengals or any team decide to pay individuals is irrelevant as long as the team spends the cap money.

I have no idea what Joe will demand. I look at Mahommes and Allen and they did not break the bank. Rodgers is on his third contract, so not a comparison. He is also a former Super Bowl winner and league MVP 3 times.

(01-18-2023, 06:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, the Mahomes and Allen deals were the types of extensions I was hoping for us to avoid with Burrow.

I don't want us losing a bunch of essential players in the process. We will lose a few good players, but hopefully not our leaders.

Need to keep Burrow, Chase, Wilson for sure.

(01-18-2023, 09:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Of the top 12 cap hits at QB in 2022, only 4 of them were in the playoffs this year despite there being 7th seeds. Only 2 of those 4 made it to the Divisional Round, 1 via bye. Meanwhile of the 8 teams still in the playoffs 4 have QBs on rookie deals and a 5th, the 49ers, have Purdy on a rookie deal and Jimmy G took a huge paycut.

The goal isn't to get 10-13 wins and get knocked out of the playoffs early every year. The goal is to win Super Bowls. You need a lot of talent on your roster to win a Super Bowl. Unless you manage to perpetually get draft after draft in a row of just great find after great find, you need cap space to add that talent and keep your pre-existing talent. Or your window will close.

There's a reason why Aaron Rodgers has only reached the NFC Championship game 2 times in 15 years and Drew Brees only reached it 1 time in 19 years. They both were all about maximizing personal gains. Fair, it's a business, you look out for you, but just don't be surprised when your career ends and you underachieved because you couldn't get enough talent around you.

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Burrow is going to do whatever he is going to do. If he chases maximum dollar it's his right to get the most pay he can for the work he does. I do hope he takes less to allow the Bengals to keep filling the team with talent around him, but I am not naive enough to expect it to happen. Either way they shouldn't be a terrible team, but competing for Super Bowls is a whole lot more fun than being 9-8 or 11-6 every year and either just missing the cutoff or getting knocked out early.

(01-18-2023, 07:06 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: How sure are we that the reason Brees, Manning, Rodgers only won 1-2 super bowls because they ate up too much cap? Tom Brady is their best QB of all time. These other guys unluckily played in the prime of his career.

If teams are now doing massive contracts for QB’s and it’s the standard for the league, then we’ll be in no worse position than Buffalo, KC, Jags, Phil, etc. I’ll take my chances with a fat paid Burrow vs some rookie.

How many great QB’s can the nfl have? Like truly great. We had Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers for so long. I feel like we’ve kinda hit our cap with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lawrence, Herbert, Hurts. I know it’s weird to say we’ve hit this artificial limit of great QB’s, but it’s kind of science. There can’t be 10 hall of fame level QB’s playing at once.

(01-18-2023, 06:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, the Mahomes and Allen deals were the types of extensions I was hoping for us to avoid with Burrow.

I don't want us losing a bunch of essential players in the process. We will lose a few good players, but hopefully not our leaders.

Need to keep Burrow, Chase, Wilson for sure.

(01-18-2023, 05:05 PM)Stewy Wrote: I personally think the owners will fight against the precedent that the Browns set, and the Lamar situation is a result of smart teams refusing to budge the line.  Basically the thinking would be that the owners will tell their QBs that the DW contract was an aberration born of desperation.  Born of desperation and will not consider it in negotiations.

I believe the Ravens will TAG Lamar, trade him for as much as they can get to a team desperate enough to pay him what he wants or close to it, and within half a season he'll be shelved again due to injury, further entrenching the owners NOT to give 100% guaranteed contracts.

Some of you think the ship ha sailed and the owners are locked in their cabins.  I say the ship is still in port, and hasn't sailed yet.  The owners aren't dumb and the majority won't be bent over by their players.

Just watch.  This is just getting started.

(01-18-2023, 05:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True. It's odd though that I could see Burrow looking at Rodgers or Mahommes or Allen and being like "I'll take half if what they're making!"

Maybe Burrow can just marry into the Brown family. That'd be easier. 

(01-19-2023, 11:52 AM)pally Wrote: Well Katie is a little old for him besides she already has a spouse.  Elizabeth and Caroline are both available as far as I know but somehow I think Olivia might have something to say about her guy dumping her for money

(01-18-2023, 07:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Feels a little inevitable. Not many players are (were) married to supermodel wives who are worth like $400m+. If you have a lot of good players, you have a lot of players who will get paid. Eventually you're going to have to make some decisions. The cost of success.

I kind of waffle back and forth on him. Wilson is very good, but the guy's shoulder seem to be made of styrofoam which is not a good thing for really any NFL player but a LB in particular. Pratt is good, but he's a 2 down LB and doesn't set up the defense. I don't think you can pay both, and I don't think you can let both go, either. So I guess you gotta pay Wilson, but you need to make sure you can get out of that deal after a year or two because Wilson's right shoulder and lack of ever playing a full season really worry me.

(01-18-2023, 08:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It may come down to Pratt or Wilson.  

(01-19-2023, 02:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wilson's shoulder sure didn't look like it was made of styrofoam on the Linderbaum block...

Plus he is young, it may have healed already and might not be a problem from here on out, he is younger than Pratt, keep youth.


Sounds like it, too bad, love both players but you know where my vote is.

(01-19-2023, 02:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dislocating shoulders don't get more sturdy with time and increasing dislocations. Same shoulder had a dislocation, surgery, and dislocation, all within a 12 month period.

Know two people with shoulder dislocation problems. They just become easier and easier to dislocate over time. It's much like a concussion in that way where the more you have the easier it is to get more.

I'm still on board with you in that you have to keep Wilson. I'm just saying don't bury yourself in potential dead cap space in the contract with loads of guarantees. Give yourself a solid exit plan in the contract after a couple years just in case.