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+--- Thread: Should we just accept.. (/thread-36348.html)
RE: Should we just accept.. - bengalfan74 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that's a great point.
I think that Cleveland, for whatever reason...has our number.
It sure seems so. Just hoping this doesn't turn into a ML vs. Steelers 5-19 or whatever kinda thing.
RE: Should we just accept.. - bengalfan74 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:16 AM)Wyche Wrote: I agree somewhat, and we did play starters on defense at Atlanta. That said, the Rams take the same approach and it worked out pretty well for them. Of course, their QB didn't shit the bed, so there's that.
I get it and I think there's a fine line there. I just feel it's probably worth the risk for a couple series in games two and three of preseason to let the Oline work out some bugs. So on
With the way Burrow stunk it up I'm not sure it would have made any difference yesterday though?
RE: Should we just accept.. - Soonerpeace - 09-11-2023
Despite Burrow’s poor play the offense was not ready. They need to be sharper to start the season.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Nately120 - 09-11-2023
I just don't like watching games where the team does nothing, whether the game counts or not. It's been almost 14 years and I'm still pissed about that meaningless game in 2009 where we went to NY to play the Jets and we just phoned it in and let the team play like absolute trash because it "didn't count." I sincerely hope we aren't expected to wait 7 months for the NFL season to start only to watch this sort of game right off the bat.
I'd rather go back to the Marvin style of having this sort of game on a Thursday night where I need an excuse to go to bed, not when I'm dying to watch football and it's week 1.
RE: Should we just accept.. - samhain - 09-11-2023
I have the same opinion of preseason prep. To be fair, though, there are always individual factors large and small that contribute to how they approach practices and games in August. Burrow looked ready to go full bore when camp began. He was in better shape than we've ever seen him and reportedly looked next-level in practices until the calf put him on the sidelines.
Taylor takes heat, and yes I'm one who's given it to him, but it's probably not quite that simple. If Burrow remained healthy, would the preseason have been so lackluster? Might he have played a series in the preseason? Probably not, but no idea. He absolutely would have done a lot more work with the first team offense and presumably would not have had the embarrassing performance we saw yesterday.
The offensive line is another issue. Major changes have taken place in personnel for the last two years, yet next to no live reps are given in preseason games. I'm so down on Pollack's approach that I'm not sure whether to blame it on his ineptitude or lack of continuity/familiarity. It's becoming a thing. Two and three years ago, the personnel was laughable and everyone knew it. The team just needed to get some plug and play guys in FA to improve the overall quality of personnel.
Fast forward to early last season and today, and this team has multiple high end signings along the line. This isn't a bunch of draft picks that need development and seasoning. It's not dealing with the unknown of guys coming from pass-happy pop-gun college offenses playing trash defenses for half the games of the season being thrust into the league to get destroyed by grown man d-linemen. Karras, Cappa, Brown, Collins (when healthy), even Jonah; these guys have been around and established. Almost all of them have been on teams through deep playoff runs and long seasons. Almost every starter has played in a Super Bowl and 3/5 of them have won one.
Guys with this kind of league experience shouldn't be that difficult to coach into a viable line. Still, both this year and last, they come out flat. I have no doubt that this group will eventually be just fine. I just feel like we can safely say that the talent is no longer the problem. If they stay healthy, this line should be able to allow the offense to run as expected. When it doesn't, the blame falls on the coaching. Idk how entrenched Frank Pollack is with the organization, but replacing him is the next logical step.
RE: Should we just accept.. - SunsetBengal - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:16 AM)Wyche Wrote: I agree somewhat, and we did play starters on defense at Atlanta. That said, the Rams take the same approach and it worked out pretty well for them. Of course, their QB didn't shit the bed, so there's that.
Joe is responsible for his share of the offense's ineptitude yesterday, but he's is not the only Donkey to pin a tail on. There were several plays where he stood looking in disbelief, after throwing the ball to a spot where he clearly thought a receiver should have been. OL could have definitely benefitted from some "live reps" in preseason, even if just a few drives.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 11:40 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I get it and I think there's a fine line there. I just feel it's probably worth the risk for a couple series in games two and three of preseason to let the Oline work out some bugs. So on
With the way Burrow stunk it up I'm not sure it would have made any difference yesterday though?
They may have played better up front, but that was Bad Andy level out there yesterday. I get kinda torn on the preseason thing.... I'd like to see some reps like everyone else, but so far at the end of the year, we seem to be healthier than most teams too.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Bengalbug - 09-11-2023
Based on the play calling, on both sides, I wonder if the bengals AND browns knew about the wet ball struggles (specifically for burrow) before the game even started.
It was as if both teams knew that burrow was going to struggle immensely. The bengals would try to cover it up with the short game and the browns just said f it, and went after him.
RE: Should we just accept.. - michaelsean - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 09:20 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Who says they are accepting it. I'd bet the locker room was full at 5 am this morning with players in there working to get better.
They are 1-8 in the first two games of the season under Zac.
RE: Should we just accept.. - HarleyDog - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 09:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Is it now Zac Taylor's fault that Burrow appears snake bitten when it comes to training camp and pre-season?
Actually, to be honest, I think it is good they lost this first game. While I don't think this applies to Burrow as much as some, I tend to think some of the players read too much of their own press about how good they are. It's good for them to get smacked in the mouth and brought back to Earth once in a while. Happened last year and they pulled it together and went on a 10 game run...
The Lions gave us a gift and we left it on the porch. I can see us going 0-3 and even 0-4 before we get our shit together. Frank Pollack is a douche, always has been a douche, always will be a douche. Surprised he's had so much time here. Glass eaters my ass. We looked bad. The offense looked bad. Tee looked bad. Burrow looked atrocious. Mixon still sucks. And you are correct, we needed that loss.
WTS, I do feel we'll get it together, hopefully, sooner than than I think. Losses like this eat at Burrow and I think it will have a great effect on how they are prepared next week. But it wasn't just 1 player that sucked all day. This team is not in sync.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Clark W Griswold - 09-11-2023
The offensive play calling and the QB were both horrible yesterday and they need to get better ASAP. Baltimore will be tough and the Rams are not going to be a push over like many thought they would be. They have a good QB and Donald who is a game wrecker like Garrett.
I hope the players are not going into the season thinking like Bengals fans are - that they are so good the playoffs are automatic.
Other AFC teams like the Dolphins, Chargers (even though they lost), Jags, Jets etc will be better this year so previous seasons mean nothing. That’s not including KC, Buffalo or the teams in the AFCN.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 12:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe is responsible for his share of the offense's ineptitude yesterday, but he's is not the only Donkey to pin a tail on. There were several plays where he stood looking in disbelief, after throwing the ball to a spot where he clearly thought a receiver should have been. OL could have definitely benefitted from some "live reps" in preseason, even if just a few drives.
Agree about the oline....as to the miscommunication, hard to know if was the WR or the QB. From Joe's reaction, it was the WR.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Whatever - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:08 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Ok I take it back. I said I wasn't going to grind on it, but now I'm going to grind on it, haha.
I'm old school I know. But I'm just against the starters not playing at all in preseason games! Like you said it was like our offense was playing together for the first time ever.
Two Oline players whom had never played an in game snap together and just on and on. In summary the no starters in preseason policy hurts, it shows! I get Joe couldn't play but IMHO it dang sure would have been better for the other 10 starters to play a few preseason series.
Problem is, the D played well. They just got completely hung out to dry by the offense.
If I was Taylor, I 'd take it year by year based on the first couple of games. Next year, I'd tell the first team defense they don't have to play in preseason, because they earned it. The offense, on the other hand, I would tell them that they looked terrible, so they're going to play.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Joelist - 09-11-2023
Burrow and Zac were the big culprits yesterday. Burrow was hilariously inaccurate and he had time to throw so no excuses there. He was also out of sync with his receivers. Zac is partly to blame for not giving the offense preseason reps so they don't come out rusty and out of sync. He also should have gone power run heavy as soon as he saw the weather. Mixon is the type of back who needs carries to get it going and we as usual would not commit to it. The plan should have been power runs and max protect for play action style passes. Boring but I suspect it would have gotten us some points.
RE: Should we just accept.. - bengalfan74 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 12:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe is responsible for his share of the offense's ineptitude yesterday, but he's is not the only Donkey to pin a tail on. There were several plays where he stood looking in disbelief, after throwing the ball to a spot where he clearly thought a receiver should have been. OL could have definitely benefitted from some "live reps" in preseason, even if just a few drives.
For sure
And it's hard for us fans to determine was it on the thrower guy or the catcher guy? My guess would be like most things it was probably on both at one time or another.
I'm just torn on the whole no or next to no preseason reps for the starters. I get the more thread on the tires to end season argument. And it probably has some merit. But as has been mentioned numerous times it would be great to have home field and game off in playoffs, to say the least.
And if we punt the first 2 or 3 games to start every season it's hard to dig out of that hole.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Nately120 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 11:22 AM)Sled21 Wrote: People act like Burrow should be up there in tears. It's one game. People who have played football, or any sport, as long as these guys have, no there will be losses and bad days. The only people who think it's the end of the world are some fans.
Exactly. When he wins he can be Smokin' Joe Cool, but when he loses we apparently want him to be Ears Smokin' Joe Apeshit.
RE: Should we just accept.. - SunsetBengal - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 01:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm just torn on the whole no or next to no preseason reps for the starters. I get the more thread on the tires to end season argument. And it probably has some merit. But as has been mentioned numerous times it would be great to have home field and game off in playoffs, to say the least.
I get being rested for the long haul and the safe to prevent injury aspect. However, I don't think that anyone is asking for them to go out and play a complete game in preseason, or even a full half. I do think that especially in a pass first offense, where timing and communication are so critical, it is important for the 1st team to at least run a few drives to make sure that things are ready to click in real action. As for the OL, they look like they could have used at least a couple of entire first halves of work. Not to take anything away from Cleveland's pass rushers, but both OBJ and Williams looked lost.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 01:15 PM)Joelist Wrote: Burrow and Zac were the big culprits yesterday. Burrow was hilariously inaccurate and he had time to throw so no excuses there. He was also out of sync with his receivers. Zac is partly to blame for not giving the offense preseason reps so they don't come out rusty and out of sync. He also should have gone power run heavy as soon as he saw the weather. Mixon is the type of back who needs carries to get it going and we as usual would not commit to it. The plan should have been power runs and max protect for play action style passes. Boring but I suspect it would have gotten us some points.
Absolutely....but even if it didn't lead to many points, it would have at least milked a little clock, and if you pick up a couple of first downs, you rest the defense. Keep it to within a couple of FGs or thereabouts, and who knows how it turns out.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 01:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I get being rested for the long haul and the safe to prevent injury aspect. However, I don't think that anyone is asking for them to go out and play a complete game in preseason, or even a full half. I do think that especially in a pass first offense, where timing and communication are so critical, it is important for the 1st team to at least run a few drives to make sure that things are ready to click in real action. As for the OL, they look like they could have used at least a couple of entire first halves of work. Not to take anything away from Cleveland's pass rushers, but both OBJ and Williams looked lost.
I see both sides of the dilemma, honestly. Then, I look at LA taking the same approach, and they SMOKED SEA. Of course, Stafford had a great game, and our quarterback didn't. I'm honestly looking more at what Killer Goose pointed out earlier....Joe Burrow seems to start slow. Is it the bad luck he's had going into the season? I'm sure that's a large part of it.
RE: Should we just accept.. - Nately120 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 01:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And if we punt the first 2 or 3 games to start every season it's hard to dig out of that hole.
I hear ya. I realize there are wacky circumstances to every Burrow offseason so far, but we pride ourselves on this team being hard working and focused on winning, but that doesn't square with the idea that they just brush off the early season because they'll win 'em back and more later.
We'll see if it continues, particularly if Burrow ever gets a calamity free offseason, but as of now the "No big deal" attitude reminds me a bit too much of those athletes who admit they don't watch film or really practice all that hard because they're just plain good enough to overcome it eventually. Can't keep that up forever, can you?