(11-25-2017, 11:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With our epically bad offensive line, it's amazing that you're in the they should have let Zeitler leave camp. Especially after seeing that they didn't spend that money elsewhere.

Some people will defend the Bengals Management no matter what though. Shakes my head.

(11-21-2017, 02:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know people dislike Marvin, but this is where we came from. Now we're hearing rumblings trickle out from Willie Anderson that coaches may have a lot of Administrative Tasks to do. This article is from 2003.

By Mark Curnutte
The Cincinnati Enquirer
PITTSBURGH - The last three Bengals coaches could not produce one winning record in 12 seasons. That begs the questions: Can the next Bengals coach win? And does it matter who coaches the team as long as he answers to the same front office that is ultimately responsible for a 55-137 record since the start of the 1991 season?

Years of media analysis, both local and national, point to two major obstacles a Bengals coach faces - the league's smallest player personnel department, which forces assistant coaches to scout, and a negative attitude that has grown more oppressive with each passing season.

Several agents and players have said the Bengals do not have the best reputation in the league. Despite paying huge contracts to players such as Corey Dillon, Willie Anderson and Brian Simmons, the Bengals are still considered penny-pinchers by many agents and their clients. As a result, the Bengals have been unable to attract more than one or two A-list free agents (Lorenzo Neal, Tony Williams) the past few years.

What's clear in the week since Dick LeBeau was fired is there is no shortage of coaches who say they can both win and work productively with Mike Brown.
Former Jacksonville coach Tom Coughlin on Friday was the latest candidate to speak optimistically about the Bengals' immediate future.
The Bengals' head-coaching job is different than the other two that opened last week - Coughlin's former position with the Jaguars, and the Dallas Cowboys job that went to Bill Parcells.

Both of those organizations have made experienced NFL coaches their priority this time around. Parcells is a two-time Super Bowl winner, and he's going to work for Jerry Jones, an owner who will spend big to win. The name of former Vikings coach Dennis Green has re-emerged in Jacksonville, where the eight-year-old franchise spent way over the salary cap in a successful effort to win early.

But unless the Bengals hire Coughlin, the team's head-coaching job will go to a man with no previous NFL head-coaching experience for the fourth time in the last five hires. The exception was Bruce Coslet, the former Jets coach, who was promoted to replace the fired Dave Shula in 1996.

The Bengals' job has similarities to other NFL jobs. The trend in the league is away from the combination coach-general manager title. Seattle coach Mike Holmgren lost his general manager responsibilities last week. Jacksonville owner Wayne Weaver wants to hire a general manager and a coach to decentralize power. Coughlin had both titles with the Jaguars before his firing Monday. Even Parcells, a known control freak, did not get the GM title with the Cowboys.

Bengals president Mike Brown, who acts as the team's untitled general manager, said Monday after firing LeBeau that the team would not hire a general manager.
The thinking league-wide now is that coaching is demanding enough and can't be paired with time-consuming GM duties.

Coughlin was the third candidate to talk with the Bengals.

The first was Washington defensive coordinator Marvin Lewis, who interviewed Tuesday. He told people close to him that the Bengals situation is not as bad as advertised. Steelers offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey interviewed Saturday in Pittsburgh.

Lewis' reputation is that players want to work for him. He is considered one of the league's brightest defensive minds, and his hiring might help the Bengals retain free agent linebacker Takeo Spikes.

Mularkey has the same type of reputation as an offensive coach, and his creative use of former college quarterbacks Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El conjures ideas of what he could do with bench-warming quarterback Akili Smith.

All three coaches are considered strong candidates, but doubt persists nationally that even they could win in Cincinnati.

If the Bengals hire one of the three outside candidates - Lewis, Coughlin or Mularkey - the new coach will have to adjust to a comparatively downsized scouting department.
"The odds are against any coach winning there unless a bigger effort is made in the scouting department," said John Clayton, of ESPN.com and ESPN Magazine. "The Bengals concede five months - August, September, October, November and December - to the rest of the league."

The Bengals do not scout college players as heavily as most other NFL teams. They have just four full-time "scouts" in their personnel department - and two of them are Brown family members who spend much of their time in the office. The fifth person in the department is part-time consultant John Cooper, the former Ohio State coach.

"Other teams hit every school," Clayton said. "The Bengals get the (scouting) reports, but I get the reports, too. It's knowing the background information, the players' personalities, that make the difference in drafting."

The Bengals do visit schools during the season, but their scouts do not see as many games as scouts from other NFL teams.
"You need to make evaluations during games," Clayton said. "You're not scouting guys to workout."

Once the NFL season ends, Bengals assistants do make visits to colleges for player workout days. They also attend the annual scouting combine in Indianapolis.
Washington has 13 people in their player personnel department. The Redskins have individual pro- and college-scouting directors, and their college scouts are assigned by region. Before joining the Redskins, Lewis was defensive coordinator in Baltimore, where the Ravens have 11 people in their personnel department.

Lewis was in Pittsburgh as linebackers coach before moving to Baltimore. The Steelers, for whom Mularkey is offensive coordinator, have 10 people in their personnel department - including seven scouts. Before Mularkey joined the Steelers, he was in Tampa Bay. The Buccaneers have 10 people in their player personnel department -- including one scout dedicated to coordinating the club's efforts at the annual scouting combine in Indianapolis.

Coughlin comes from Jacksonville, where he helped to build an 11-man personnel department. The Jaguars have six full-time scouts, four supervisors and a scouting assistant.

One of the widely acclaimed scouting and personnel departments belongs to the Tennessee Titans. They have 11 people in scouting and personnel - including Director of Arena League Football Operations Pat Sperduto. Titans owner Bud Adams is owner of an expansion arena team which will start play in Nashville in 2004. It will serve as a farm club of sorts for the Titans.

Brown defends his scouting department and the team's personnel structure.

"We get the information on players. I think the information that we get is as good as every team's got," Brown said. "The record indicates that's the case. We have more players through the draft, more starters than any but one or two teams.

"That is what I call a theme. You guys (in the media) develop themes. They have legs of their own and they run for a while. I don't apologize for our scouting efforts. I think we do well in that department."

True, the Bengals do have a large number of their original draft picks on their current roster - including every first-round pick since 1996. However, since the start of the '96 season, the Bengals have a 34-78 record.

The task, though, is not insurmountable.

"Beyond the tangible problems - like the scouting department - you've got the intangible problems," said Howard Balzer, national NFL columnist for Sports Weekly and the SportsXchange. "You've got pro players who want to avoid the place. You've got college kids talking about wanting to play elsewhere."

It once was believed that no coach could win in Tampa Bay. But coach Tony Dungy and general manager Rich McKay changed the Buccaneers' reputation.
"Dungy gave them a fresh look, a fresh slate," Balzer said. "Somebody could come into Cincinnati and turn it around briefly, even if things (in the front office) don't change."
E-mail mcurnutte@enquirer.com

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2003/01/05/wwwben1a5.html

(11-21-2017, 04:08 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, I'm probably not going to sway your opinion. So I'll just share others'.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/how_each_nfl_team_has_-_or_has.html


It's got a fairly nice listing of last year's draftees/starters versus winning percentage. Bengals have a good number of draftees and were above .500.  I'd put the winning percentage more on bad coaching than the 38 draftees on the roster, but I'm thinking you and I would disagree there.

From 2014:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/05/01/which-nfl-teams-have-been-best-draft-lately/H5mBGyXErkXptvVPFzg9TM/story.html

There's other similar links, but the theme pretty much is that Cincinnati is one of the better drafting teams in terms of getting, and playing, draft picks. If you're looking at every draft coming up with 2 Pro Bowlers in the first couple years, you're going to find very, very few teams that measure up. 

I think it's like the Pats or Steelers with championships. We do pretty well at the draft, so when we have a down year (and the last couple have stunk, for sure), it's more noticeable. 


To the rest, no idea on what Willie says. I don't work in an NFL office, and I have no idea how to compare them. And I don't think it would've mattered either, but that's mainly because I've never been a fan of Hue. I think he's good with the players, but that's about it. Never was a fan of his play calling, or his use of talent.

(12-11-2017, 02:34 PM)3wt Wrote: A lot of good stuff here, but I object to the idea of evaluating the quality of a scouting department by the # of players still on the roster.

There are a lot of bad reasons players may still be on the roster, chiefly that there are other players on the roster even worse than them.

(03-05-2019, 11:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: These were some blurbs BEFORE Marvin got hired: