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+--- Thread: Andy Dalton street value (/thread-14600.html)
RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 03-01-2018
(02-28-2018, 11:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Andy Dalton td passes the last 5 years
33
19
25
18
25
Yeah, not sure why you're pulling one stat instead of using where he ranked in passer rating.
I'm just joking: I know why you're doing it, beats saying I was mistaken.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Shake n Blake - 03-01-2018
(02-28-2018, 10:22 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Who cares what Andy Dalton did in 2016 when discussing the thread topic of his 2018 street value?
Who cares what AJ McCarron did in 2015 when discussing his trade value in 2017? Certainly the Browns. Oops.
Andy's whole career would be assessed, 2016 included. That would go for any QB. Teams don't just look at one season bro. C'mon now.
If they did, no QB with a bad season would ever get a starting gig again.
(02-28-2018, 11:41 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Dalton is a lot belter than some people think.
Last year Bodine was being thrown into his face every other series or so, Og was protecting his blind side, and we had no running game until the last two games.
Dalton would excel for a team like the Broncos.
What did we get for Palmer? Dalton would improve the Broncos more than Palmer improved the Raiders.
Ouch.
(02-28-2018, 11:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who finished in the top 10 in passer rating 5 straight years ('08-'12)
And just ahead of Mathew Stafford and Carson Palmer.
Exactly. Lets not pretend Schaub has always been a scrub. He was once a fantastic QB, then he pulled a Rick Ankiel and has since been benched, preserving that excellent passer rating. Of course, Bfine knows this.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-01-2018
(03-01-2018, 12:40 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, not sure why you're pulling one stat instead of using where he ranked in passer rating.
I'm just joking: I know why you're doing it, beats saying I was mistaken.
Not sure what is going on here. Do you want to have a debate about QBs having up and down seasons or are you just trying to pick a fight.
I was wrong about nothing. My point all along is that teams will not just look at one season to deterrmin the value of a 30 year QB. They will look at the entire career. Do you agree with that or not?
BTW here is how Daltons passer rating has varied over his career
Up 7.0 points
Up 1.4 points
Down 5.3 pointts
Up 22.7 points
Down 14.4 points
Down 5.2
RE: Andy Dalton street value - PDub80 - 03-02-2018
(03-01-2018, 01:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Who cares what AJ McCarron did in 2015 when discussing his trade value in 2017? Certainly the Browns. Oops.
Andy's whole career would be assessed, 2016 included. That would go for any QB. Teams don't just look at one season bro. C'mon now.
If they did, no QB with a bad season would ever get a starting gig again.
(03-01-2018, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what is going on here. Do you want to have a debate about QBs having up and down seasons or are you just trying to pick a fight.
I was wrong about nothing. My point all along is that teams will not just look at one season to deterrmin the value of a 30 year QB. They will look at the entire career. Do you agree with that or not?
BTW here is how Daltons passer rating has varied over his career
Up 7.0 points
Up 1.4 points
Down 5.3 pointts
Up 22.7 points
Down 14.4 points
Down 5.2
You guys are proving my point....
- AJ McCarron NOT playing much has actually had a POSITIVE impact on his trade value.
- You're both 100% correct in that teams will NOT just look at one season but, more or less, a whole career. Andy Dalton, as a whole, has been avg. to below average in passer rating, yards, TDs. Period. It's really simple. I'm agreeing with you guys. Based on Andy Dalton's entire body of work, nobody is giving 2 first rounders for him. He might not even get a 2nd and a 3rd like AJ was about to fetch because, again, the unknowns with AJ McCarron are actually helping there.
AD is older and much more expensive than McCarron and is coming off of two down seasons. Alex Smith is older still, but coming off of an EXCELLENT season and all the Chiefs got for him was a 3rd round pick and a borderline 1st round CB who was about to get cut.
Fred, Andy Dalton is the model for inconsistency. 17 TDs, then on pace for 30+, then 18 again, then 25. His other stats flow up and down on a wave as well.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-02-2018
(03-02-2018, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Andy Dalton, as a whole, has been avg. to below average in passer rating, yards, TDs. Period. It's really simple.
This is complete BS.
Andy Dalton is currently 10th among active QBs in passer rating.
Since 2011 when he came into the league he is also top ten in passing yards and passing tds. Cam Newton is the only QB with more rushing tds and Daltons fumble % is fifth best in the league since 2011 (among QBs with at least 1000 attempts)
According to Profootballrefernce.com since 2011 dalton is #3 in "Fourth Quarter Comebacks" and #4 in "Fourth Quarter Game Winning Drives"
When you look at his career there is nothing below average about any of it. He is top 10 in passer rating, passing yards, and passing tds and top 5 in rushing tds, fewest fumbles, an clutch fourth quarter performances.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-02-2018
(02-28-2018, 10:22 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Who cares what Andy Dalton did in 2016 when discussing the thread topic of his 2018 street value?
(03-02-2018, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Fred, Andy Dalton is the model for inconsistency. 17 TDs, then on pace for 30+, then 18 again, then 25. His other stats flow up and down on a wave as well.
:troll:
RE: Andy Dalton street value - bengalhoel - 03-05-2018
(03-02-2018, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: You guys are proving my point....
- AJ McCarron NOT playing much has actually had a POSITIVE impact on his trade value.
- You're both 100% correct in that teams will NOT just look at one season but, more or less, a whole career. Andy Dalton, as a whole, has been avg. to below average in passer rating, yards, TDs. Period. It's really simple. I'm agreeing with you guys. Based on Andy Dalton's entire body of work, nobody is giving 2 first rounders for him. He might not even get a 2nd and a 3rd like AJ was about to fetch because, again, the unknowns with AJ McCarron are actually helping there.
AD is older and much more expensive than McCarron and is coming off of two down seasons. Alex Smith is older still, but coming off of an EXCELLENT season and all the Chiefs got for him was a 3rd round pick and a borderline 1st round CB who was about to get cut.
Fred, Andy Dalton is the model for inconsistency. 17 TDs, then on pace for 30+, then 18 again, then 25. His other stats flow up and down on a wave as well.
The Browns and Hue Jackson would have drove down to Cincy and picked him up personally for this. That trade would have definitely went through
RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 03-05-2018
(03-02-2018, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is complete BS.Being as there's about 25 that qualify for the rating, 10 fits into the average category; don't you agree? And those below Andy are quite tightly grouped. For instance, Eli Manning is probably last in the category and his career rating is about 5 points lower than Andy's; yet Kirk Cousins, who is 2 spots ahead of Andy has a passer rating about 6 points higher.
Andy Dalton is currently 10th among active QBs in passer rating.
The 10th among active QBs is passer rating probably means more to folks that cannot read the numbers.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Go Cards - 03-05-2018
(03-02-2018, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: You guys are proving my point....
- AJ McCarron NOT playing much has actually had a POSITIVE impact on his trade value.
- You're both 100% correct in that teams will NOT just look at one season but, more or less, a whole career. Andy Dalton, as a whole, has been avg. to below average in passer rating, yards, TDs. Period. It's really simple. I'm agreeing with you guys. Based on Andy Dalton's entire body of work, nobody is giving 2 first rounders for him. He might not even get a 2nd and a 3rd like AJ was about to fetch because, again, the unknowns with AJ McCarron are actually helping there.
AD is older and much more expensive than McCarron and is coming off of two down seasons. Alex Smith is older still, but coming off of an EXCELLENT season and all the Chiefs got for him was a 3rd round pick and a borderline 1st round CB who was about to get cut.
Fred, Andy Dalton is the model for inconsistency. 17 TDs, then on pace for 30+, then 18 again, then 25. His other stats flow up and down on a wave as well.
Do you really believe AJM is worth more in trade than Dalton at this point in time, or even close ?
That is just crazy.
But do not see anybody wanting to trade for Dalton with so many available in draft and FA. Not because he is bad but because they can get one without giving up anything this year easily.
Said it in another thread and will say it here. Unless Hue absolutely is in love with AJM (which he may be) then he will still be a backup QB somewhere.
At best somebody signs him on cheap while drafting one of top 6 QB's and lets them compete for job.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Go Cards - 03-05-2018
Dalton came in as a rookie on a team that many experts on here said would not even win two games and led Bengals to playoffs immediately and repeated 4 more times in a row. Probably a first for the franchise even.
He can not be blamed for all the departures who's voids were not adequately filled.
Lost Whit, Zeitler, Andre, Sanu, Jones, Gruden, and Hue, just on offense alone.
Plus Eiffert being made of glass and sitting out majority of the time. Which has definitely effected his #'s last two years along with pours OL and no running game.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - J24 - 03-05-2018
(03-02-2018, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: You guys are proving my point....What are you talking about Fuller was the Redskins best Defensive player he was never in danger of getting cut. The chiefs actually got a Defensive franchise caliber player for him in return. Secondly the reason why teams don't trade for franchise QBs is because the asking price is so high for them that no team actually has the Peace's to get a deal done.
- AJ McCarron NOT playing much has actually had a POSITIVE impact on his trade value.
- You're both 100% correct in that teams will NOT just look at one season but, more or less, a whole career. Andy Dalton, as a whole, has been avg. to below average in passer rating, yards, TDs. Period. It's really simple. I'm agreeing with you guys. Based on Andy Dalton's entire body of work, nobody is giving 2 first rounders for him. He might not even get a 2nd and a 3rd like AJ was about to fetch because, again, the unknowns with AJ McCarron are actually helping there.
AD is older and much more expensive than McCarron and is coming off of two down seasons. Alex Smith is older still, but coming off of an EXCELLENT season and all the Chiefs got for him was a 3rd round pick and a borderline 1st round CB who was about to get cut.
Fred, Andy Dalton is the model for inconsistency. 17 TDs, then on pace for 30+, then 18 again, then 25. His other stats flow up and down on a wave as well.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Go Cards - 03-05-2018
(03-05-2018, 02:50 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: What are you talking about Fuller was the Redskins best Defensive player he was never in danger of getting cut. The chiefs actually got a Defensive franchise caliber player for him in return. Secondly the reason why teams don't trade for franchise QBs is because the asking price is so high for them that no team actually has the Peace's to get a deal done.
Yep, it is a rarity
unless of course they quit and hold their team hostage.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - J24 - 03-05-2018
(03-05-2018, 03:05 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Yep, it is a rarity
unless of course they quit and hold their team hostage.
Lol and even then you can get a shit ton for them.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-05-2018
(03-05-2018, 01:37 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Being as there's about 25 that qualify for the rating, 10 fits into the average category; don't you agree?
29 not 25.
But even if you claim top 10 is just average it doesn't matter because I was responding to PTroll80's claim that Dalton was "below average".
Is 10 out of 29 "below average"?
BTW if you reduce the "minimum requirements from 1500 to 1000 Dalton is 12th out of 36. If you reduce it too 500 he is 15 out of 51. So the lower you reduce the minimum requirements the higher percentage Dalton ranks.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Shake n Blake - 03-06-2018
(03-05-2018, 12:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 29 not 25.
But even if you claim top 10 is just average it doesn't matter because I was responding to PTroll80's claim that Dalton was "below average".
Is 10 out of 29 "below average"?
BTW if you reduce the "minimum requirements from 1500 to 1000 Dalton is 12th out of 36. If you reduce it too 500 he is 15 out of 51. So the lower you reduce the minimum requirements the higher percentage Dalton ranks.
Rep.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - Shake n Blake - 03-15-2018
Andy Dalton's street value? Certainly more than $5 million per.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-15-2018
At this point Dalton's contract is 3 years $50.2 million.
Hard to find a decent QB in free agency for less that Dalton's $16.7 million per year.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 03-17-2018
(03-05-2018, 12:11 PM)fredtoast29 not 25. Wrote: So the lower you reduce the minimum requirements the higher percentage Dalton ranks.
Unless you drop it to around 130 and include playoff performances. Do that and Andy was the 2nd best QB on the Cincinnati Bengals last year.
But how about we just agree Andy is an average NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - treee - 03-17-2018
(03-17-2018, 06:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unless you drop it to around 130 and include playoff performances. Do that and Andy was the 2nd best QB on the Cincinnati Bengals last year.
But how about we just agree Andy is an average NFL QB. Nothing more, nothing less.
There are so many teams that wish they had an Average QB in the context of a professional football league. Also, I disagree. I think Andy is above average and we haven't had an OC that played to his strengths since Hue.
RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 03-18-2018
(03-17-2018, 06:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unless you drop it to around 130 and include playoff performances. Do that and Andy was the 2nd best QB on the Cincinnati Bengals last year.
Only if you agree that your "best" QB has never beaten a team that won more than 5 games in a season.
Or if you refuse to do an accurate comparison of how each QB played with the exact same offense around him.
2015 Dalton.........106.2
2015 McCarron.... 89.7
And, finally, if you lower the minimum to 130 then you will be arguing that Deshaun Watson is a better QB than Tom Brady. You willing to take your mental gymnastics performance to that level?