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+--- Thread: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. (/thread-22578.html)
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - XenoMorph - 12-30-2019
First backup off the bench for RT and LT next year im guessing and our 6th OL for jumbo packages.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - samhain - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 02:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: The coaches apparently told him he was a T when he first showed up and he's worked at LT and RT exclusively. He's almost 6'8"and a lot of coaches don't like IOL that are that tall.
My guess is that that they still like Jordan at LG. He does have the physical tools you look for and a year in a pro S&C program should help him.
Everything you read on the official page points to LG being MJ's job to lose. I think he'd have to get hurt or just completely shit the bed not to be the guy. They like his length and ability to learn relatively quickly. Also, it's cliche to point this out, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt him to be a Cincinnati native and lifelong Bengal fan.
He had some awful games and looked lost at times, but was stronger when he came back from being benched. IIRC, Boling had trouble when Wharton went down in the preseason and made him the starting LG for the next 8 seasons. Hopefully Jordan has a similar trajectory.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - jj22 - 12-30-2019
Fred showed how stabilizing the LT spot can turn a middling offense into a 30+ scoring powerhouse.
I say keep him there and move Williams to RT. Something came together with the left side to end the year, and we need to stick with it. With Williams ability to play RT and Hart's improvement, RG seems to be the only spot that could use upgrading (Scherff) and backup LT if you've given up on Dugas who while had a rough couple snaps in preseason, I thought showed worthy of development at LT.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - ochocincos - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 02:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: The coaches apparently told him he was a T when he first showed up and he's worked at LT and RT exclusively. He's almost 6'8"and a lot of coaches don't like IOL that are that tall.
My guess is that that they still like Jordan at LG. He does have the physical tools you look for and a year in a pro S&C program should help him.
The best case scenario is Michael Jordan becoming a solid LG and Fred Johnson becoming the starting RT and playing at least solid. With Jonah back at LT, that would leave RG as the weak spot and RG is maybe the easiest spot on the OL to upgrade?
Unfortunately, the Bengals can't (or shouldn't) put 100% confidence into Jordan or Johnson achieving that before Training Camp 2020 so they still need to draft/sign multiple OL just in case.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - XenoMorph - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 03:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Fred showed how stabilizing the LT spot can turn a middling offense into a 30+ scoring powerhouse.
I say keep him there and move Williams to RT. Something came together with the left side to end the year, and we need to stick with it. With Williams ability to play RT and Hart's improvement, RG seems to be the only spot that could use upgrading (Scherff) and backup LT if you've given up on Dugas who while had a rough couple snaps in preseason, I thought showed worthy of development at LT.
if your moving Williams to RT then slide hart insilde to RG
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - dr tarzan - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 03:00 PM)samhain Wrote: Everything you read on the official page points to LG being MJ's job to lose. I think he'd have to get hurt or just completely shit the bed not to be the guy. They like his length and ability to learn relatively quickly. Also, it's cliche to point this out, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt him to be a Cincinnati native and lifelong Bengal fan.
He had some awful games and looked lost at times, but was stronger when he came back from being benched. IIRC, Boling had trouble when Wharton went down in the preseason and made him the starting LG for the next 8 seasons. Hopefully Jordan has a similar trajectory.
You recall exactly how Boling was--I was thinking the same thing. Boling Got bulldozed often and looked lost his rookie season.....made the most of the experience , gained strength and became a solid and dependable G for years. Love to have history repeat itself in that regard.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - Luvnit2 - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 05:10 PM)dr tarzan Wrote: You recall exactly how Boling was--I was thinking the same thing. Boling Got bulldozed often and looked lost his rookie season.....made the most of the experience , gained strength and became a solid and dependable G for years. Love to have history repeat itself in that regard.
I know Hart is a whipping boy in this forum and so is Turner his coach, but Hart improved a lot in 2019 in my opinion. What if Jordan improves in 2020 and so does Hart, then Jonah comes in and is solid from day 1. We go from a weakness at OL to an average or above average OL quickly. That frees up Glenn to be (huge cap savings) to bring in a very good FA guard at RG too.
If Johnson can be a solid backup at a minimum, our OL looks better in a hurry.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - corpjet - 12-30-2019
If this happens, we need to trade Cordy Glenn, as desperate as the NFL is for a starting LT I think he at least nets us a 4th rd pick
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 12-30-2019
(12-30-2019, 05:10 PM)dr tarzan Wrote: You recall exactly how Boling was--I was thinking the same thing. Boling Got bulldozed often and looked lost his rookie season.....made the most of the experience , gained strength and became a solid and dependable G for years. Love to have history repeat itself in that regard.
Didn't the draft scouting reports for Jordan basically say that he was young, raw, hadn't filled out his frame yet?
The bigger surprise was that he did enough to beat out Billy Price (although Price would have been mainly taking snaps at Center) as Plan B for LG rather than he struggled. I wouldn't be anointing him as a starter for 2020 but I'd expect him to be a prime candidate to take a step forward next year.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - lone bengal - 12-31-2019
(12-30-2019, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The best case scenario is Michael Jordan becoming a solid LG and Fred Johnson becoming the starting RT and playing at least solid. With Jonah back at LT, that would leave RG as the weak spot and RG is maybe the easiest spot on the OL to upgrade?
Unfortunately, the Bengals can't (or shouldn't) put 100% confidence into Jordan or Johnson achieving that before Training Camp 2020 so they still need to draft/sign multiple OL just in case.
Agreed that the Bengals need to draft and sign multiple O-linemen. If we draft Borrow it should be our number one priority to protect him at all costs, bad offensive lines can ruin quarterbacks. The Colts offensive line play ruined Andrew Lucks career. Signing Hopkins was a good start and hopefully Williams will be a solid LT. But like you said I'm not banking on Fred Johnson and Bobby Hart to be quality NFL starters and I'm not solid on anyone we have at guard. Our defense is terrible but I rather draft a good O-lineman at pick #33 if there's one available and he's worth the value. This is a good tackle draft and their should be some very good ones at the top of round #2. Forget drafting more receivers this team needs to be built up on the lines. Outside of Hopkins who just got signed there's no must sign Bengals free agents in my opinion. I know this is a crazy idea but the Bengals should try to sign free agent linebacker Corey Littleton. He's young, athletic ,played with Taylor in L.A. and I don't think the Rams have enough money to resign him. If the front office dosen't want to spend on free agent linebackers maybe they should reassess how they scout linebackers, or add additional scouts since they live and die by the draft. The Bengals haven't drafted a good linebacker in forever and resigning Preston Brown blew up in their face.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - Truck_1_0_1_ - 12-31-2019
(12-31-2019, 12:48 AM)lone bengal Wrote: But like you said I'm not banking on Fred Johnson and Bobby Hart to be quality NFL starters and I'm not solid on anyone we have at guard. Our defense is terrible but I rather draft a good O-lineman at pick #33 if there's one available and he's worth the value.
You don't?
The guy balled out at a position that he won't even play (a trickier one at that) and you don't have any faith? O..k then...
You still draft OL because you can never have enough good players on the line, to supplant or come in for injury; we had Whitworth for all those years, but we also had Collins sitting on the bench. Think we would've had the same success in '13?
Personally, I roll with Fred, Bobby and a draft pick; the winner starts and the other two are your backup tackles. Problem solved.
If Hart played like he did last year, all season this year, I'd have an issue, but he played very well in the second half and worse comes to worse, his contract is easy to get out of with minimal lost funds, this year.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - Sled21 - 12-31-2019
Turner and Taylor resigned Hart and said they saw things that led them to believe he would get better, and were blasted for it. Evidently, they were right, because Hart made huge strides in the latter half and turned into a pretty decent RT. Jonah, if he lives up to his college hype and draft position, should be a solid left tackle. I would not move him to right in his first year. I would tell Johnson to do whatever it takes to get himself accustomed to the right side over the off season, and start him there. Move Hart to RG. All of a sudden, Turner has put together a pretty decent line.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - lone bengal - 12-31-2019
(12-31-2019, 10:44 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: You don't?
The guy balled out at a position that he won't even play (a trickier one at that) and you don't have any faith? O..k then...
You still draft OL because you can never have enough good players on the line, to supplant or come in for injury; we had Whitworth for all those years, but we also had Collins sitting on the bench. Think we would've had the same success in '13?
Personally, I roll with Fred, Bobby and a draft pick; the winner starts and the other two are your backup tackles. Problem solved.
If Hart played like he did last year, all season this year, I'd have an issue, but he played very well in the second half and worse comes to worse, his contract is easy to get out of with minimal lost funds, this year.
Respect your opinion its just to limited a sample size for me to believe in Johnson yet. I like Johnson being a swing tackle he is young and has potential vs guys like Andre Smith and John Jerry. I find it hard to believe we found a hidden gem in Johnson that we stole from the Steelers , sounds too good to be true lol. But If we take Borrow and there’s a stud o-lineman left at #33 I’d pull the trigger. Hart and Johnson need legit competition at RT versus taking a tackle in round 6 and saying Hart beat him out.
Fred Johnson - fredtoast - 01-08-2020
I hope he works out to be a solid O-lineman for us, but do you all remember when everyone loved Christian Westerman and Alex Redmond because they supposedly looked so good playing about half of the snaps in the final two games of the '17 season?
RE: Fred Johnson - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-08-2020
Those Fred guys ain't no good.
RE: Fred Johnson - masonbengals fan - 01-08-2020
A larger sample will tell the tale. He looked adequate in those games though.
RE: Fred Johnson - corpjet - 01-08-2020
We gave up a bag of peanuts for him, worse case we throw his ass back onto the street.
No risk here, let him duke out
RE: Fred Johnson - HarleyDog - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 04:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those Fred guys ain't no good.
There once was an O-Lineman named Fred
Who had a bad smell in his shed
He slid in the back to find the source
and there was Mike Brown,
IDK, you finish it. Had something to do with horsey sauce. But I aint posting that stuff here.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - Catmandude123 - 01-08-2020
(12-31-2019, 11:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Turner and Taylor resigned Hart and said they saw things that led them to believe he would get better, and were blasted for it. Evidently, they were right, because Hart made huge strides in the latter half and turned into a pretty decent RT. Jonah, if he lives up to his college hype and draft position, should be a solid left tackle. I would not move him to right in his first year. I would tell Johnson to do whatever it takes to get himself accustomed to the right side over the off season, and start him there. Move Hart to RG. All of a sudden, Turner has put together a pretty decent line.
Tobin and Mike Brown resigned Hart. If any of you think a first year coach with zero experience came in and told MB what to do you are off your rockers.
RE: Fred Johnson: The Dumpster Dives are in early. - JSR18 - 01-09-2020
(01-08-2020, 11:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: There once was an O-Lineman named Fred
Who had a bad smell in his shed
He slid in the back to find the source
and there was Mike Brown,
IDK, you finish it. Had something to do with horsey sauce. But I aint posting that stuff here.
Finish it?? I thought it was supposed to be some silly ass, non-rhyming Haiku or something...