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+--- Thread: Palmer v Burrow (/thread-23085.html)
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Catmandude123 - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 12:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: Palmers playoff stats (and playoff wins elsewhere) are nothing to boast about in your attempt to slam Dalton. Which is all this is about to you. I'm speaking of Palmer as a Bengals QB. You using his days with Arizona means nothing to what he did here.
You continually try to act like Dalton is the greatest thing since sliced bread but IMO those three (Palmer, Anderson and Boomer) puts Your boy Dalton in fourth place.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Nately120 - 02-20-2020
(02-19-2020, 09:01 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You continually try to act like Dalton is the greatest thing since sliced bread but IMO those three (Palmer, Anderson and Boomer) puts Your boy Dalton in fourth place.
Compared to their fellow QBs of the time Dalton would be 4th, but I feel for the guy because he took a team friendly deal he didnt have to take and was then given a garbage o line and the crappiest coaches ever as thanks for it. Dalton owes MB a kick in the crotch.
Being good to MB pays even less than arguing with him does.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - jj22 - 02-20-2020
(02-19-2020, 09:01 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You continually try to act like Dalton is the greatest thing since sliced bread but IMO those three (Palmer, Anderson and Boomer) puts Your boy Dalton in fourth place.
I'd take Dalton's era record over Palmers era record anyday. And this without the Free agent signings Palmer got and still couldn't win as consistently as Dalton did.
Crazy folks prefer 2-9 wining seasons over 6 (1 of which before he left due to injury)-9. But here we are.
I'll leave the splainin to posters like you to persuade folks an era that produced 2 winning seasons out of 9 is/was better than that of which produced 6 out of 9.
Dalton Derangement Syndrome? I think so. That's the only explanation.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - PhilHos - 02-20-2020
(02-19-2020, 09:01 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You continually try to act like Dalton is the greatest thing since sliced bread but IMO those three (Palmer, Anderson and Boomer) puts Your boy Dalton in fourth place.
There's no doubt that Anderson and Boomer are the top 2 QBs Cincinnati has ever had, but I don't see how you can put Palmer above Dalton. Palmer had more physical ability, sure, but Dalton proved to be the better quarterback. There's no objective criteria you can point to that puts Palmer above Dalton. Dalton has better stats, more wins, better winning percentage, more playoff appearances, etc.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Catmandude123 - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 12:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd take Dalton's era record over Palmers era record anyday. And this without the Free agent signings Palmer got and still couldn't win as consistently as Dalton did.Just so you know Daltons stats should be higher than Palmers's because Palmer was only the QB for 97 (6.25 seasons) games while Dalton was QB for 133 games(8.32 seasons) . Dalton Gangers always want to skew the stats to justify their delusions about their mediocre hero. BTW Palmer won a playoff game. Your hero STB five straight times.
Crazy folks prefer 2-9 wining seasons over 6-9. But here we are.
I'll leave the splainin to posters like you to persuade folks an era that produced 2 winning seasons out of 9 is/was better than that of which produced 6 out of 9.
Dalton Derangement Syndrome? I think so. That's the only explanation.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - jj22 - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 12:40 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Just so you know Daltons stats should be higher than Palmers's because Palmer was only the QB for 97 (6.25 seasons) games while Dalton was QB for 133 games(8.32 seasons) . Dalton Gangers always want to skew the stats to justify their delusions about their mediocre hero. BTW Palmer won a playoff game. Your hero STB five straight times.
With the Bengals? That's news to me. Bengals fans desperately claiming Palmers playoff win elsewhere to boost his record here further points to DDS.
But thanks for adding that Dalton was even healthier then Palmer and we know the best ability is availability. Another notch under Daltons belt in the Palmer vs Dalton debate.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - PhilHos - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 12:40 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Just so you know Daltons stats should be higher than Palmers's because Palmer was only the QB for 97 (6.25 seasons) games while Dalton was QB for 133 games(8.32 seasons) . Dalton Gangers always want to skew the stats to justify their delusions about their mediocre hero. BTW Palmer won a playoff game. Your hero STB five straight times.
Dalton's QB rating with the Bengals: 87.5
Palmer's QB rating with the Bengals: 86.9
Dalton's won/loss record with the Bengals (counting playoffs): 51.0%
Palmer's won/loss record with the Bengals (counting playoffs): 46.0%
Franchise records (single season):
Dalton: most attempts, most passing yards, and most TDs
Palmer: most completions
Of note: both Dalton & Palmer are tied for 2 in INTs thrown in a single season (20). Also, Dalton has thrown the 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th and 14th longest pass while the highest Palmer ranks is 18th
By any OBJECTIVE observance of the stats, Dalton was the better QB for the Bengals, though not by much.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-20-2020
I think the leadership quality is definitely what separates the two. Burrow is a natural leader and he is not a statue in
the pocket. Burrow just had the best season of all time for a college QB playing against the best competition in the
country. Burrow is the better prospect based on these things IMO.
Palmer had a great arm and a beautiful tear drop pass, other than that, Burrow is better in every way coming out of
college.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - fredtoast - 02-20-2020
Can't compare passing numbers from different eras. You can just compare how players ranked among their peers.
Over the 7 years Palmer started for the Bengals ('04-'10) among QBs with at least 1000 attempts Palmer ranked 14h out of 43 (top third) in passer rating and 11th in yards per game. While with the Bengals he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds 4 times in 7 years ('05-'07, '10)
Over the 9 years that Dalton started for the Bengals ('11-'19) he ranked 27th out of 51 (bottom half) in passer rating and 25th in yards per game. Dalton only finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds once in 9 years ('13).
Dalton won more games and made the playoffs more often, but he had a scoring defense that was top half of the league his first 7 seasons and 5 times in the top 10. Palmer only had ONE season where the Bengals defense finished in the top half of the league ('09).
RE: Palmer v Burrow - XenoMorph - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't compare passing numbers from different eras. You can just compare how players ranked among their peers.
Over the 7 years Palmer started for the Bengals ('04-'10) among QBs with at least 1000 attempts Palmer ranked 14h out of 43 (top third) in passer rating and 11th in yards per game. While with the Bengals Palmer had 4 seasons ('05-'07, '10) where he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds.
Over the 9 years that Dalton started for the Bengals ('05-'11) he ranked 27th out of 51 (bottom half) in passer rating and 25th in yards per game. Dalton has only had one season ('13) where he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds.
Dalton won more games and made the playoffs more often, but he had a top 10 scoring defense five times while Palmer only had one season where the defense was even top half of the league in points allowed.
where they rank on Pick 6's? or does that factor into the TDs? lol
RE: Palmer v Burrow - PhilHos - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't compare passing numbers from different eras. You can just compare how players ranked among their peers.
Over the 7 years Palmer started for the Bengals ('04-'10) among QBs with at least 1000 attempts Palmer ranked 14h out of 43 (top third) in passer rating and 11th in yards per game. While with the Bengals Palmer had 4 seasons ('05-'07, '10) where he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds.
Over the 9 years that Dalton started for the Bengals ('05-'11) he ranked 27th out of 51 (bottom half) in passer rating and 25th in yards per game. Dalton has only had one season ('13) where he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds.
Dalton won more games and made the playoffs more often, but he had a top 10 scoring defense five times while Palmer only had one season where the defense was even top half of the league in points allowed.
First off, we're not talking about passing numbers from today vs the 1960s. We're only talking about 10-15 years ago
More importantly, the argument isn't which player ranked vs other QBs in the NFL, but rather which QB was better for the Bengals during their time in Cincy. Dalton has more wins and a better winning percentage than Palmer and has a higher QB rating (which, BTW, is still a good indicator of a QBs performance today as it was 10 years ago in that different era of passing Palmer was in) than Palmer.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - bengals67 - 02-20-2020
Interesting that this turned into a Palmer v Dalton discussion.
My intent was to compare Burrow to Palmer since Palmer was number one and Burrow is likely to be pick number one.
Would anyone dispute that Palmer has more of the physical traits for a franchise QB than Andy?
The question is whether Palmer had the personality and confidence to be the franchise QB?
Burrow seems to have the mental qualities that Carson lacked.
Moreover, I think a case can be made that Andy is a better leader than Carson, though not as gifted physically.
If you have a chance to draft a potential Montana, or a Brady, or a Peyton or a Luck, I don't see how you can pass.
But I also expect any sane NFL organization to take other steps to make the incubator for your possible franchise QB as strong as possible- something that I seriously doubt will be done by Mike Brown.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Nately120 - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 01:12 PM)jj22 Wrote: With the Bengals? That's news to me. Bengals fans desperately claiming Palmers playoff win elsewhere to boost his record here further points to DDS.
But thanks for adding that Dalton was even healthier then Palmer and we know the best ability is availability. Another notch under Daltons belt in the Palmer vs Dalton debate.
According to stats while Dalton was here being better than Palmer, Palmer was in AZ being better than HoF QB Kurt Warner...wacky.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Nicomo Cosca - 02-21-2020
(02-20-2020, 12:40 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Just so you know Daltons stats should be higher than Palmers's because Palmer was only the QB for 97 (6.25 seasons) games while Dalton was QB for 133 games(8.32 seasons) . Dalton Gangers always want to skew the stats to justify their delusions about their mediocre hero. BTW Palmer won a playoff game. Your hero STB five straight times.
Actually, Dalton only played in 4 playoff games.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Stonyhands - 02-21-2020
(02-18-2020, 01:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: Palmer couldn't hold Dalton's jock record and success wise here. So not sure why we are skipping over Dalton to compare any new QB to Palmer. It's Dalton they have to live up to, fill and surpass the shoes of.
Palmer was long left in the dust by what Dalton was able to accomplish here. That's why he's mad. Surpassed by a 2nd round pick. Comedy.
Had Palmer not of been injured in that playoff game they would have won. Palmer is not responsible for the injuries to the o-line and the terrible personnel decisions made by the front office. The likes of which brought us player like Coates, Andrews, Irons, Roland, Guicic(sp), and some terrible terrible defenses. Before Carson’s elbow injury his offense scored at will. If not for a BS roughing call vs Tampa and a few botched fgs they’d have made the playoffs at least once more.
Not to mention the string of arrests that hurt the reputation of this team for years.
While Dalton’s stats exceeded that of Palmer he didn’t have anywhere near the BS Carson had to deal with. Plus I very highly doubt Dalton would have anywhere near the stats had he not had AJ Green as his #1. I’d take a young pre-injury Palmer over Dalton any day.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Stonyhands - 02-21-2020
(02-20-2020, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't compare passing numbers from different eras. You can just compare how players ranked among their peers.
Over the 7 years Palmer started for the Bengals ('04-'10) among QBs with at least 1000 attempts Palmer ranked 14h out of 43 (top third) in passer rating and 11th in yards per game. While with the Bengals he finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds 4 times in 7 years ('05-'07, '10)
Over the 9 years that Dalton started for the Bengals ('11-'19) he ranked 27th out of 51 (bottom half) in passer rating and 25th in yards per game. Dalton only finished in the top 10 in both passing yards and tds once in 9 years ('13).
Dalton won more games and made the playoffs more often, but he had a scoring defense that was top half of the league his first 7 seasons and 5 times in the top 10. Palmer only had ONE season where the Bengals defense finished in the top half of the league ('09).
I never agree with Fred...but this post is truth 100%.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Catmandude123 - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 01:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Actually, Dalton only played in 4 playoff games.
you are right but O-4, 57.8 passer rating, 1 td, 6 interceptions is the epitome of STB.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Nicomo Cosca - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 07:48 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: you are right but O-4, 57.8 passer rating, 1 td, 6 interceptions is the epitome of STB.
No argument there.
RE: Palmer v Burrow - Housh - 02-21-2020
Palmer was a better QB than Andy. Wanna find out how I know?
Flashback to 2006 playoffs and you can Choose between prime Carson and prime Andy. Who you picking. Most of us are picking Carson. Hell most of us are picking old Arizona Carson over prime Andy. Me I’m so done with playoff Andy I may even pick Raiders Palmer over prime Andy
Imo Andy at no point in his career was a better QB than prime Carson. Just my opinion tho idk about what the stats say
RE: Palmer v Burrow - XenoMorph - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 10:48 AM)Housh Wrote: Palmer was a better QB than Andy. Wanna find out how I know?
Flashback to 2006 playoffs and you can Choose between prime Carson and prime Andy. Who you picking. Most of us are picking Carson. Hell most of us are picking old Arizona Carson over prime Andy.
Imo Andy at no point in his career was a better QB than prime Carson. Just my opinion tho idk about what the stats say
do you mean 2005? cause we didn't make the 2006 playoffs..