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+--- Thread: No O Line Help Is Bad News (/thread-23840.html)
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Nicomo Cosca - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 05:57 PM)Fullrock Wrote: I forgot more football than you know.
Ben made a living extending plays and making plays outside the pocket. DeShaun Watson, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Jimmy G, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh Allen, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz, Cam Newton all better at making plays when things break down than Dalton. Those are just off the top of my head. Dalton would be way down the list. If you can't see that then you're either blind or stubborn or both.
I'm out. I have better things to do than argue your ridiculous take.
Or he just loves to argue, regardless of how clearly wrong he is...
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - fredtoast - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 05:43 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Do you really need that explained to you? Jones played at Houston. They don't exactly play in the best conference. Competitive level matters. If he put up those numbers in the SEC he would have been a top 10 pick.
Last year Houston played 5 teams ranked in the top 25 (Oklahoma, Washington State, SMU, Cincinnati, Memphis).
Ezra Cleveland was drafted before Jones and he did not play against a single top 25 team.
So, yes, I guess I do need this explained to me.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - fredtoast - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 05:57 PM)Fullrock Wrote: I forgot more football than you know.
Ben made a living extending plays and making plays outside the pocket. DeShaun Watson, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Jimmy G, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh Allen, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz, Cam Newton all better at making plays when things break down than Dalton. Those are just off the top of my head. Dalton would be way down the list. If you can't see that then you're either blind or stubborn or both.
I'm out. I have better things to do than argue your ridiculous take.
I don't agree all those QBs are better thasn Dalton, but even if they were that still puts Dalton in the top half of the league.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - caneyoufeelit - 04-25-2020
Oh my god.
I can't believe people are still trotting out Fred Johnson's name as a reason why we shouldn't have addressed the OL either FA or the draft.
Also, the "Hey! JOE BURROW HAS SUPERPOWER POCKET PRESENCE. . .HE DOESN'T NEED AN OL" isn't as good of a take as some may think.
Lastly, and most importantly, we're relying on Jim Turner to develop our OL. Miami fans weren't happy he was let go because of the Jonathan Martin scandal.They were happier he was let go because he was terrible.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Circleville Guy - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 05:05 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I surmised you were suggesting 3 new players were needed from the draft since you said Jonah can't fill 3 spots at once. Agreed, the OL still needs work, but that will have to wait.
He can’t play 3 spots at once but he can play 1 spot. 3-1=2. The line does need work. I’m not putting the Bengals down for their draft. I’m just saying that we still suck at guard and it will probably hinder our new QB.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - TecmoBengals - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 06:20 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: He can’t play 3 spots at once but he can play 1 spot. 3-1=2. The line does need work. I’m not putting the Bengals down for their draft. I’m just saying that we still suck at guard and it will probably hinder our new QB.
I hear ya dude and agree. We'll have weaknesses at OL. Hopefully Burrow can overcome the bad play and next year the OL can get better.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - samhain - 04-25-2020
I would have liked them to draft a guard in the 4th when there were many decent ones available. I'm still not overly upset how things went.
Going into the offseason, they had IMO more needs than they could address in one year. The linebacking corps needed 3 plus players just to field a roster. They remade a defensive backfield that couldn't tackle to save it's life. On top of that, they now have the most coveted player in the draft and the face of the franchise for the next decade, plus a very highly regarded weapon for him to grow with.
This is still a process. The staff was put in place last year. The quarterback this year. They underwent a massive roster overhaul on defense.
While I believe that there are probably at least 3 guys that could be upgraded on the starting o-line, I won't totally dismiss the idea of continuity. Perhaps the group in place will improve with consistency. It's not unheard of. If that doesn't happen, then you invest heavily up front in 2021. Who knows? Maybe MJ comes out of an offseason of NFLstrength training ready to deal with NFL defenders. We will see.
Taking two years to completely overhaul the worst team in the league wouldn't be too shabby if that's how it goes down.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Circleville Guy - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 06:34 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I hear ya dude and agree. We'll have weaknesses at OL. Hopefully Burrow can overcome the bad play and next year the OL can get better.
The team got a hellova lot better and the draft shouldn’t be graded any less than an A-.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - CarolinaBengalFanGuy - 04-25-2020
I feel like people say
"We ignored the offensive line"
Then people counter with
"Well we got Jonah Williams back a 1st round pick, signed, XSF for Guard, and Fred Johnson showed promise"
And then people just ignore that and continue to scream about how we got no help.
I think we still do something in free agency. I believe Offensive line was something they would look at depending on what was available in the draft and it just so happens other players/positions were better value.
Isn't Mike Persons still a Free Agent? Then there's Jason Peters. And I'm all for shipping a low round pick for Gabe Jackson if the Raiders want to let him go. Add one or two of those guys and we aren't perfect on the line but we sure look better.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - 007BengalsFan - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 08:14 PM)Carolin aBengalFanGuy Wrote: I feel like people say
"We ignored the offensive line"
Then people counter with
"Well we got Jonah Williams back a 1st round pick, signed, XSF for Guard, and Fred Johnson showed promise"
And then people just ignore that and continue to scream about how we got no help...
I think it is because some people are just ignoring the obvious. Just because the Bengals sign someone like Xavier Su'a-Filo it doesnt mean the O line is going to be better when that O lineman wasnt all that good to begin with. XSF is just more of what we already had. We need serious player upgrades on the O line, not more of the same
Yes we add first round draft pick Jonah Williams to the O line. That's great, we had him last year and the O line was bad. I know he was injured but what's to say he doesn't get injured again. We dont even know if Williams was any good before the injury. He could be a bust like Price. Now with the injury there are even more question marks. Even with the best case scenario and Williams turns out to be an All-Pro, the O line still would need more than one good lineman.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - 007BengalsFan - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 06:35 PM)samhain Wrote: Going into the offseason, they had IMO more needs than they could address in one year...
That's true. We had too many needs so there was no way all of those needs could be addressed. The problem I see is it still falls back on the coaching staff and Bengals organization. Over the past few years there have been too many blown draft picks that it puts us in the situation we are in now. Last year with all the needs on the team why in the world are we taking Drew Sample in the 2nd round. Why is the team using the #9 pick in the draft on John Ross. The team has to make better draft picks. I think the Bengals organization needs to step up its scouting department.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Nicomo Cosca - 04-25-2020
Just signed an UDFA OG from Iowa St. That’s at least 2 more guys that will be in competition.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Essex Johnson - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 04:13 PM)kevin Wrote: There was weaker opponents end of season and how Bengals went from no wins to 2 wins. This O Line against good teams, forget about it.
Improvement is Improvement... especially when you develop it over a period of games.. Hart was a better player last year... so lets think about not all teams in the league are great or good.. most players are going to score lower against great and good teams.. Hart scored bad against weak teams the year before.. those are strong scores and at end of year.. no doubt he improved last year... and if the Bengals can keep coaching him up he still young he can improve more this year..
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Nicomo Cosca - 04-25-2020
Just signed another OT from Oregon St.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - CardCounterChris - 04-25-2020
I've had some time to think about the draft....I love it, btw. With that said, talking about the lack of help at OL, I think it was the right move. One or two solid linebackers change the defense (Let's hope a couple of what we drafted and signed pan out!). One SOLID lineman doesn't change much. You can have 3 Pro Bowl lineman, and 2 bad ones will ruin protection and get abused. Lines have to be improved as a whole and thats why its hard for teams to have a strong line. Lines take years to evolve and grow.
Cincy plugged some holes. They get Jonah back, and signed XSF. This will improve the line, but the impact this season of drafting heavy into LBs to hit on a couple is much higher than 1 good OL. Do I wish we would have drafted one? Yes, do I necessarily think it would have been as impactful as how we actually drafted? Probably not. There's more than 1 OL on our team that can be used and abused.
Moving forward, I think most the other glaring holes in the team have been addressed and this creates better oppurtunities to solve the issues in the line.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - 007BengalsFan - 04-25-2020
Hopefully one of those O line additions will be a diamond in the rough. You just never know. Close to 30% of the NFL is made up of undrafted free agents.
No O Line Help Is Bad News - fullonbehavior - 04-25-2020
A lot of you are forgetting that last year we basically had no weapons outside of Boyd and Mixon. Single coverage on the receivers allowed teams to stack the box on running downs and rush everyone and their mothers on passing downs. Not many lines would have done much against that. Oh and Andy who is quick getting rid of the ball but had no one to throw to due to lack of separation. And he was awful at extending plays. Trust the process
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RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Joelist - 04-25-2020
Some things to think about:
1) This was not a super deep OL draft, and there was a big run on OL in Round 1. Basically what was left after that run was mostly project players and backup types.
2) Fixing LB was a HIGH priority. After we dropped 150 million on the defense we needed to finish the proverbial job. Last season the defense was awful like it has been the last three seasons. In fact the tackling last year was so bad there was 5 games we could have won but poor tackling killed us.
3) Jonah Williams comes back. We got him at 11 and it was widely considered a steal as his grading out of college was sky high. We also signed Filo who is better in the zone scheme we want to run than Miller was. And yes he is a decent Guard, as evidenced by the blocking for Dallas being better when he was in the game.
4) A lot of different factors go into how an OL performs. There is ability of course, but also play selection, scheme, even the score of the game. Scheme wise we were schizoid last year, with a playbook that was gutted by all the injuries (especially AJ). That affects blocking (really the last effective OC we have had was Hue Jackson). The inability of the defense to stop anything caused us to be behind quickly in most games which let defenses tee off. Basically it was a perfect storm scenario.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - Whatever - 04-25-2020
(04-25-2020, 08:14 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I feel like people say
"We ignored the offensive line"
Then people counter with
"Well we got Jonah Williams back a 1st round pick, signed, XSF for Guard, and Fred Johnson showed promise"
And then people just ignore that and continue to scream about how we got no help.
I think we still do something in free agency. I believe Offensive line was something they would look at depending on what was available in the draft and it just so happens other players/positions were better value.
Isn't Mike Persons still a Free Agent? Then there's Jason Peters. And I'm all for shipping a low round pick for Gabe Jackson if the Raiders want to let him go. Add one or two of those guys and we aren't perfect on the line but we sure look better.
I don't think a lot of people understand that OL is very much a spot where you draft and develop. College players need development as individuals and they need to develop chemistry as a unit before they're ready to compete at the NFL level. People think you can just draft an OL in Round 3 or 4 and they're going to be this massive upgrade and it's very rarely the case. The 5 T's drafted after Jonah last year had an average PFF grade of 59, with a high of 63. The Bengals have a lot of young OL players that are still early in the development curve. Drafting more youth over top of them just resets the development curve. If you need immediate upgrades, you can add a vet or two, but they still have to learn to play together.
RE: No O Line Help Is Bad News - ezekiel23 - 04-25-2020
I would have to agree with the Zac Taylor and company on the O-line for the most part.I like what I’m seeing in Williams,Jordan,Hopkins,Su’a’filo,and hopefully Johnson in place of Hart.I’ll even go as far as to say Johnson may be the highest graded O-lineman they have this coming year.Also Hart did improve this past season.But,with that said,I was hoping for Jones to be taken with the third round pick.