(01-18-2021, 08:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good points, 'Holic.  I will add this point though;  Defenses that are strong against the run also seem to do a pretty good job of getting to the QB.  

From my point of view, the failure in both aspects is a 3 force vector.  Part of it might be a lack of superior talent, which the front office tried to rectify by signing DJ Reader and going heavy on LB in the draft.  That part looked good, until the pandemic inhibited their ability to practice and mold as a unit, and then the injuries started accumulating.  Part II is coaching and leadership.  It became very apparent with the Dunlap situation that there was a serious disconnect between the staff and the players.  This came long after we had all had our suspicions from watching the product that was presented on the field.  Part III is an ineptness on the part of team management.  Rather than taking the bull by the horns and making some wholesale changes in the coaching staff, the Bengals front office took a route similar to getting anything major accomplished through modern medicine and insurance procedures.  I.E. instead of sending you straight to an orthopedic to fix your backwards hanging elbow, the decided to try "rehab and therapy" first, meaning rather than canning Lou and going after a bona fide DC, they decided to just draft a few mid-round LBs and to now bring in a slight upgrade at DL coach..

(01-18-2021, 03:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm saying I think the continuity of Lou's scheme will produce better results than switching to Phillips in a one-year run (continuity always wins if personnel are equal) and so if we think this is a do-or-die year (as many here believe) you're better off staying with continuity. If things fall flat on their face again it probably wasn't because the defense was 5 spots lower in scoring defense (hypothetically) than the other scheme its because the personnel is flat-out bad and we need to reimagine the whole organization. You don't want guys working in potentially 3 schemes in a 3 year period, that is how you ruin careers. Also, and this sounds bad, but he is 73 and the last thing you want is an assistant literally dropping dead in the middle of the year.

(01-18-2021, 08:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: There's no right answer here, as I understand both are important.  But I do think you're mistaken if you think points allowed is all that matters when grading a defense.  Yardage tends to be much easier to digest, although it's full of imperfections too (Ex: Time of possession).

(01-19-2021, 01:41 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Continuity is overrated. People only say that because (a) we have ownership that is allergic to change, so people try to rationalize and make themselves feel better about the change that isn't coming, and (b) a surprising amount of people parrot the propaganda spread by Hobson and the team.

I'd understand the continuity argument with a good or decent coach. Lou has clearly shown that he is not that. Wade Phillips' track record vs Lou's isn't close enough to justify continuity over what looks like a clear upgrade.

(01-19-2021, 09:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: It's not propaganda it is fact. I have stated here before, I know guys on the backend of NFL teams through some connections as well as a scout or two, continuity 100% matters and I hear it often. The real propaganda is fans who think you can swap pieces in and out in mass and things just magically work. It goes to show the lack of understanding of the general fanbase when it comes to the install required to put a scheme in or bring people up to speed and the amount of communication that is needed to execute any scheme. Careers are ruined by scheme switches year after year after year.

(01-20-2021, 11:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can have your mysterious sources, I'll stand by my actual, you know...facts.

Lou sucks. Continuity won't change that. Wade has almost never sucked, even as a first year DC. It's really simple: Good coaches are good, bad coaches are bad.

These are professionals. Everyone prefers continuity and comfort...but they can deal with change.

Again, I'd understand the continuity argument if Lou were even mediocre. Thankfully, the team didn't value continuity so much that they stuck with some of the awful coaches we've had through the years...such as Dlck Lebeau (HC), Terryl Austin, Ken Zampese, etc.

(01-20-2021, 11:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can have your mysterious sources, I'll stand by my actual, you know...facts.

Lou sucks. Continuity won't change that. Wade has almost never sucked, even as a first year DC. It's really simple: Good coaches are good, bad coaches are bad.

These are professionals. Everyone prefers continuity and comfort...but they can deal with change.

Again, I'd understand the continuity argument if Lou were even mediocre. Thankfully, the team didn't value continuity so much that they stuck with some of the awful coaches we've had through the years...such as Dlck Lebeau (HC), Terryl Austin, Ken Zampese, etc.

(01-19-2021, 09:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: Careers are ruined by scheme switches year after year after year.

(01-23-2021, 08:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Careers are also ruined by bad coaches destroying a players talent and development with their terrible schemes and coaching for 3+ years.

Aside from Bates, nobody else on the defense has improved under Lou. Most of them have actually gotten worse, and he drove away one of the only 2 Pro Bowlers he inherited and turned the other into an afterthought.

(01-24-2021, 09:28 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I question that, Pratt improved this year, Byne had a career year, Phillip's had a better year. The rookie draft group was rated best overall by PFF and that included a few der starters. 
That does not mean a full fledge endorsement  but we did not regress under Lou,  2018 before Lou we were 30th then  25 in 2019  to 22 this year in one def ranking  site..

(01-23-2021, 08:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Careers are also ruined by bad coaches destroying a players talent and development with their terrible schemes and coaching for 3+ years.

Aside from Bates, nobody else on the defense has improved under Lou. Most of them have actually gotten worse, and he drove away one of the only 2 Pro Bowlers he inherited and turned the other into an afterthought.

(01-24-2021, 09:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: By what possible metric? Bynes had a terrible PFF grade (52.6) and they’ve usually been pretty high on him in recent years. He didn’t have a career high in a single category other than total tackles. Not passes defended, not tackles for a loss, not INT’s, not sacks, not forced fumbles, not QB hits. He basically just racked up more tackles from starting all 16 games (something he’s never done before).

The second bold is also mostly false. That ranking was almost entirely because of Burrow and Tee. Logan Wilson started all of 2 games (and PFF was even somewhat critical of him in their breakdown of our picks). ADG also only started 2 games all season.

(01-24-2021, 05:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So tackles now are not important if you play a lot.. he did not regress

(01-24-2021, 12:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Blaming Lou for Geno tearing his rotator cuff is really stretching it.....

(01-24-2021, 05:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So tackles now are not important if you play a lot.. he did not regress and PFF took in whole draft from what I read and other teams later picks weighed in also.. again you praise PFF on the negative but ignore that PFF was on total draft...  

And as i pointed out the defense has improved over two years which you ignored no surprise  still not good  enough pace for sure which I also pointed out but we have not regressed under Lou.. we just have not moved the bar enough.....