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+--- Thread: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams (/thread-27884.html)
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-24-2021
(06-24-2021, 12:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone who claims that the Bengals #1 plan in free agency was signing a WR for $18 million a year is completely clueless about how this team operates.
That would have been a serious misallocation of funds.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - PDub80 - 06-24-2021
(06-24-2021, 10:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That would have been a serious misallocation of funds.
Instead, it was misallocation of server data space because literally NO ONE SAID THAT.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-24-2021
(06-24-2021, 09:08 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I 100% agree with you. Only... why the F are you saying that in reply to me? Did I claim that that was the Bengals #1 plan in free agency? NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
It actually looks like the Bengals plan was kind of goofy at this point as they completely miscalculated the O line market and team cap cuts. Not that it turned out "wrong"... but it clearly didn't go the way they thought. Results weren't optimal compared to how it could and should have gone.
Chronologically....
- The FA OTs either got franchised or resigned
- They failed to nab any higher end interior linemen and were completely steamrolled by competing teams going after Zeitler and Thuney, who would have been a big improvements.
- They then started grabbing up defensive FAs so they didn't have a pile of money to spend on the scrubs that were left (panic move, IMO)
- Dust settles and they still have a bunch of money so the Bengals turned to a big time WR to sign (a bigger or at least equal need to O line)... which would free them up to draft Sewel. That failed on March 20th.
- By March 22nd, they then hurriedly got Reiff - who has positional versatility - to sign, which opened up options to fix things via the draft or a cut linemen down the road in the summer.... LUCKY for the Bengals because he was the last guy left who would have been an improvement at that point.
Leaving the Bengals to move on to plan Q....
- Draft Chase and Carman
Personally, I'm kind of appalled that the Bengals went so heavy on defense in the FA period AGAIN. I understand why they did it from their side of the desk, but the defense being good is a long term issue/need where the offense could have been microwaved into the elite category in one FA period. I think the offense was so close to elite as it was that they should have really dialed in on getting that unit up to that level and then lived with taking their chances in shootouts for this year. Next year would have been the time to bother with the defense in the draft and a FA period since the offense is young and all under contract for years.
^ The effort to go heavy on D in FA... AGAIN... is almost to the level of delusional. The Bengals aren't a big time defense away from being contenders. They have a 2nd year QB who needs to learn and develop into the NFL game. The Bengals had 2 years to worry about the D before it really mattered.
The difficult part is not knowing the plan. If i'm at the head of the table, i'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. I'm not even putting half my eggs in one basket and half in another.
I'd have to think they're smart enough to have plan(s) A, B, C, D and E. Optimally, plan A, being your first, is the way it plays out for them. If not, you continue to go down the list.
A. Sign a Thuney or a big name T, if one is available and go from there.
B. The market numbers are too high for plan A so look at the next couple guys in line.
C. The top 4 or 5 line guys choose someone else so you start to look at top line defensive guys of need.
D. etc
E. etc
You (they, hopefully) have to have the flexibility to go heavy O in FA and then heavy D in the draft or vice versa. None of that discounts that they may have mistook market value and been surprised that they couldn't, or wouldn't, go plan A but they should have had several plans that they were comfortable with, going in.
The success/failure of the Chase+Carman+oline later to develop, will determine if the route they took was right or wrong.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - PDub80 - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 11:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The difficult part is not knowing the plan. If i'm at the head of the table, i'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. I'm not even putting half my eggs in one basket and half in another.
I'd have to think they're smart enough to have plan(s) A, B, C, D and E. Optimally, plan A, being your first, is the way it plays out for them. If not, you continue to go down the list.
A. Sign a Thuney or a big name T, if one is available and go from there.
B. The market numbers are too high for plan A so look at the next couple guys in line.
C. The top 4 or 5 line guys choose someone else so you start to look at top line defensive guys of need.
D. etc
E. etc
You (they, hopefully) have to have the flexibility to go heavy O in FA and then heavy D in the draft or vice versa. None of that discounts that they may have mistook market value and been surprised that they couldn't, or wouldn't, go plan A but they should have had several plans that they were comfortable with, going in.
The success/failure of the Chase+Carman+oline later to develop, will determine if the route they took was right or wrong.
I think they ended up quite far down the plan, hence my "Plan Q", lol. But, you're right. Kudos to the Bengals for continuing to roll w the punches.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 11:00 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: The "techinically" rookie stuff needs to stop. Last year he was listed as a second year player and this year he is listed as a third year player. You are a rookie once.
QFT.
That stuff is so silly and annoying, when said seriously.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 10:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Instead, it was misallocation of server data space because literally NO ONE SAID THAT.
What i'm saying is, regarless of whether it was said here, his asking price was too high and it would have been dumb for the Bengals to sign him to that contract.
Honestly though, i think the point is moot because there was no way the Bengals would have penned that deal.
So...what you said. lol
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 12:08 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I think they ended up quite far down the plan, hence my "Plan Q", lol. But, you're right. Kudos to the Bengals for continuing to roll w the punches.
I think the potential is there for what they 'ended up with' to turn out well. I just don't like their track record in the "looks good" department, when the bullets start to fly.
Gotta be a first time sometime though. Right?
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - The Clapp - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 12:22 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Gotta be a first time sometime though. Right?
Sigh.... That's what she said....sigh
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - fredtoast - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 10:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Instead, it was misallocation of server data space because literally NO ONE SAID THAT.
Well, since you somehow have knowledge of their exact plans then tell me what plan A was to improve WR.
Actually I think what you have done is made up some plan in your own head and claim it was the plan of the Bengals also.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - Wes Mantooth - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 10:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That would have been a serious misallocation of funds.
I can't tell if this is an AJ Green joke or not. (Spending 18 million on a #1 WR to pair with Boyd and Higgins is stupid)
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - Wes Mantooth - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 12:21 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What i'm saying is, regarless of whether it was said here, his asking price was too high and it would have been dumb for the Bengals to sign him to that contract.
Honestly though, i think the point is moot because there was no way the Bengals would have penned that deal.
So...what you said. lol
Fwiw, Fred is the one who introduced the 18 million figure (what he ultimately got). I don't think PDub claimed anywhere that the Bengals were willing to compete with a similar amount.
I believe he only claimed he was part of a plan, which he obviously was or they wouldn't have offered him a contract. Whether that amount was for 1 year 12 million, or 4 years 72 million is irrelevant. At one point the Bengals were very much entertaining the idea of signing a high dollar WR in free agency.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - rfaulk34 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 10:27 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, Fred is the one who introduced the 18 million figure (what he ultimately got). I don't think PDub claimed anywhere that the Bengals were willing to compete with a similar amount.
I believe he only claimed he was part of a plan, which he obviously was or they wouldn't have offered him a contract. Whether that amount was for 1 year 12 million, or 4 years 72 million is irrelevant. At one point the Bengals were very much entertaining the idea of signing a high dollar WR in free agency.
My comment really had nothing to do with PDub or who made the claim, just the obvious take that it would have been dumb.
I have no doubt they were looking to sign a good WR for top dollar, it's just that their idea of top dollar and the recievers idea of top dollar were vastly different.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - PDub80 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 09:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, since you somehow have knowledge of their exact plans then tell me what plan A was to improve WR.
Actually I think what you have done is made up some plan in your own head and claim it was the plan of the Bengals also.
AGAIN.... AGAIN you're misquoting me. Why are you the way you are? Who hurt you to the point that it has made you willfully ignorant? You clearly have the internet. You clearly live in the information age along with the rest of us.... Yet, you have no information. It has to be on purpose at this point.
- You have made it clear that you do not read many independent articles, nor do you listen to podcasts regarding the Bengals. By avoiding information you miss out on key interviews and analysis by team officials, experts who follow the team, and team media relations people. This leads you to combatively questioning others and asking for proof of things that, for anyone who consumes Bengals media, wouldn't be necessary.
The fact that you think I have made this timeline of events up is goofy AF, but I can see how you would think that since you don't follow or get any Bengals related media.
I should charge you a subscription fee for the information.
PS: Plan A was to trade for Deandre Hopkins before the 2020 season, but they failed at the attempt.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 06-25-2021
(06-24-2021, 03:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Side note, is this really a very important year for Jonah? Are we in the position to move on from him even if he is average this season? I realize we could be inspired to consider other options in 2022, though.
Quite.
Short of a career ending injury the Bengals are going to be picking up his option.
This is a league in which Cam Robinson got franchised tag. The Bengals picked up the 5th year options on Dennard and Kirkpatrick who'd suffered injuries and patchy performance. They tagged AJ Green despite injury hits.
Jonah at a premium position on an option is going to be cheaper than replacing him in free agency. Even if he takes a step backwards this coming year he'll still have shown more when healthy than Ogbuehi, Price and Ross when their options were declined. Plus he's the first pick of the Zac Taylor era. This coaching staff is more invested with this pick. They're going to give him every chance to live up to his draft position - and whilst he may not have been dominant so far he hasn't been a liability which means they can continue to give him all available opportunities to take the next step.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - Wes Mantooth - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 01:05 PM)PDub80 Wrote: AGAIN.... AGAIN you're misquoting me. Why are you the way you are?
Obligatory...
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - Joelist - 06-25-2021
Jonah played 10 games last season and could have been back for week 16 but they shut him down (probably to get a better look at other players although as long as Turner was coaching said looks had limited value). He played pretty well and considering the crap he had most of the time next to him at LG he looked just fine.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - PDub80 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 01:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Obligatory...
YES!!!!!!
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - fredtoast - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 01:05 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The fact that you think I have made this timeline of events up is goofy AF, but I can see how you would think that since you don't follow or get any Bengals related media.
My problem is not with the timeline. My problem is with your claim that the Bengals "plan A" was to sign Thuney or Zeitler and that "blew up in their face"
Since you are the expert on all Bengal media please provide a link to back up your claim that the front office made offers to either of those guys or even tried to get them to visit here. Or at least some comments from the front office that those guys were their main targets.
I'll wait.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - fredtoast - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 01:05 PM)P Dub80 Wrote: PS: Plan A was to trade for Deandre Hopkins before the 2020 season, but they failed at the attempt.
PS: That has nothing to do with their plans for this offseason.
RE: Very Important Year for Jonah Williams - PDub80 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PS: That has nothing to do with their plans for this offseason.
Sure it does. If they would have been able to trade for Hopkins they don't draft Chase or make a play for Golladay.