(11-19-2021, 11:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nah, he just sucked outside of his rookie year. 

(11-20-2021, 02:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It was amazing how his production nose dived.  But if you want to talk about "eyeball test" Hill sure looked like a perennial ProBowl/AllPro type playerhis rookie year. He would break tackles and then run away from smaller DBs.

Over the last 9 games of 2014 Hill was just as amazing as Chase was the first seven of this year.  Jeremy averaged over 100 yards per game and 6 per carry.  He had 3 runs of 60+ yards and 5 more over 20.

(11-20-2021, 11:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep.  He was a large reason there was so much optimism heading in to 2015.  For the first time in a long time, the Bengals had balance on offense.  They could beat you so many ways.  

Here's to hoping Pollack, Callahan, and ZT can find some magic in the 2nd (almost) half and get the run game going.   I actually think is has been pretty solid, but ZT has fallen back to his reliance on the passing game and Burrow is paying the price for it. 

(11-20-2021, 12:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think part of the reason ZT has relied on passing is because the run game has kind of stunk. It is well below average, Mixon has decent numbers because of his volume but he and the line aren't really playing all that well. On the other hand, the passing game has been quite strong by most measures other than EPA. For the run game, here is Cincinnati's ranks...

EPA per rush (23rd)
Yards per carry (22nd)
Success Rate (25th)
Explosive Plays (27th)
TD% (14th)

And for the passing game...

EPA per pass (15th)
Yards per attempt (1st)
Success Rate (9th)
Explosive Plays (5th)
Passer Rating (4th)
TD% (1st)

It makes sense that ZT wants to rely on the pass, it's the only thing working. I'd be a little frustrated if he ran just to run when it isn't working. That doesn't do anything. The main issue is that Burrow has really been playing risky ball, and that works when he is offsetting the turnovers with touchdowns. The problem is when he doesn't hit those touchdowns. The passing game is the only thing that works, and when it isn't working, Cincinnati is B A D. 

(11-21-2021, 09:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely get what you are saying, but the problem is the opposing defenses don't have to respect the run and they are keying on the passing game, and that is getting Burrow hit way too much.  How B A D is Cincinnati without Burrow?

I am not saying they need to be a run-first team, with a higher % on the run, but even 2-3 yard runs early in a game have a way of opening things up and they also pay dividends in the fourth quarter.  

Ask any offensive linemen what he would rather be doing:  run block or pass block.  They will tell you run block every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  It motivates them to DRIVE someone rather than retreat and catch someone.  

Mixon has been one of the highest rated PFF players on the team, especially his running scores.  He is averaging 4.2 yards per carry.  Derrick Henry is averaging 4.3.  The difference is the Titans keep pounding Henry and he eventually breaks one.  It also, as previously mentioned, really wears down opposing defenders.  I know there is about a 20 lb difference between Henry and Mixon, but trust me, if you are a 185 lb DB, and you have to tackle Mixon and then sprint after Higgins or Chase the next play, you are happier when Mixon isn't getting carries.

Burrow has also been lethal out of play-action.  He may love empty, but I think if they want to keep him healthy, running and more play-action is the key.

Two things I hope to see out of this offense this week:   A few more carries for Mixon and more high % targets for Boyd. Grind them down, keep their offense off the field.  

(11-21-2021, 11:43 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: You can see that the numbers are all over the place. The difference between the first and fourth quarter on EPA per play is 0.0002. The first quarter actually has a better rushing success rate than the fourth quarter, and a higher YPC. The fourth quarter has a higher TD percentage than all of them. Nothing really here to say any of these are better than the others aside from the EPA per rush being significantly better in the second than other quarters. 

(11-21-2021, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Fourth quarter numbers are skewed some by teams with a big lead just milking clock.

2.  I agree that running the ball in general does not wear down a defense, but I have watched Titans games and a freak like Henry does seem to take a toll on the defense.  Numbers may not back it up, but Henry is a different type of RB.

(11-08-2021, 12:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that's putting it VERY lightly. An average interior would be a massive improvement

Hopkins is a dumpster fire, and whoever's at RG is also currently bad at the moment

(11-21-2021, 09:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I completely get what you are saying, but the problem is the opposing defenses don't have to respect the run and they are keying on the passing game, and that is getting Burrow hit way too much.  How B A D is Cincinnati without Burrow?

I am not saying they need to be a run-first team, with a higher % on the run, but even 2-3 yard runs early in a game have a way of opening things up and they also pay dividends in the fourth quarter.  

Ask any offensive linemen what he would rather be doing:  run block or pass block.  They will tell you run block every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  It motivates them to DRIVE someone rather than retreat and catch someone.  

Mixon has been one of the highest rated PFF players on the team, especially his running scores.  He is averaging 4.2 yards per carry.  Derrick Henry is averaging 4.3.  The difference is the Titans keep pounding Henry and he eventually breaks one.  It also, as previously mentioned, really wears down opposing defenders.  I know there is about a 20 lb difference between Henry and Mixon, but trust me, if you are a 185 lb DB, and you have to tackle Mixon and then sprint after Higgins or Chase the next play, you are happier when Mixon isn't getting carries.

Burrow has also been lethal out of play-action.  He may love empty, but I think if they want to keep him healthy, running and more play-action is the key.

Two things I hope to see out of this offense this week:   A few more carries for Mixon and more high % targets for Boyd. Grind them down, keep their offense off the field.  

(11-19-2021, 09:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was a bit behind on responses to new threads, and I have not read all the other responses yet, but here goes:

They absolutely can.  This offense was trending to put up close to 30 a game before the Cleveland debacle, and while Ward made a great play, most of the wounds were self-inflicted.

I am very curious about sitting Carman for Adeniji.  Maybe his back is acting up again and he was trying to just fight through it, but for a rookie offensive linemen going against some real talent early on, I saw flashes of real power and think (not surprisingly) is his biggest issue was pass blocking but when the Bengals were more run-heavy, he didn't stand out in a negative way.  In fact, at least one game, he was the highest rated linemen.

I remember hearing that Adeniji was being looked at as Center.  We haven't really seem much of Hill, and maybe Adeniji could be an answer there long-term.  The coaches seem to love the guy.  I think Center is kind of a waste of his talents, and would rather see him get a look at RT.  But then I think of the big wildcard in all of this:  D'Ante Smith.  That guy is built as a tackle.  You simply can't teach his length and agility.  If he can get a shot this year at RT, maybe you groom him to replace Reiff there next year.  Although I would love to see Reiff return one more year. 

Spain has been a steal.  He's tough as nails and is our best option at LG.  

Jonas has stayed healthy and is a solid LT.  

There is not a Pro Bowler on the line as it sits, but as long as there isn't a "turd in the punch bowl", then they should be able to operate at al high level.  Right now, Hopkins is a big weakness and Carman started to have issues at RG, in pass protection.  Maybe with the bye week and extra rest, both Hopkins and Adeniji step up and the line has a solid effort against the Raiders.  

(11-19-2021, 10:29 AM)TJ528 Wrote: I'll agree that Pac and Burfect were a large part of why we were in the playoffs in the first place.  However, so was Jeremy Hill.  That fumble basically killed his career because I don't remember him doing shit after Cincinnati. If i remember though, Hill never had an issue with fumbling.  So I have no issue with the play calling.  

As f'ar as the flip of emotions, I'll give that game killed me in 2015 and probably cause me to have a more realistic attitude towards this organization.  However, I also watched the 1989 Super Bowl, where Louis Billups dropped a sure fire INT that would've ended the game.  The ball was in his chest. You couldn't have the ball thrown to you any better and put on a platter.  Next play, John Taylor for the TD.  That was truly heart breaking. 

(11-23-2021, 12:36 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Hopkins is this era's Vinnie Rey. A guy that, on almost every other team, would have been cut in their first camp, BUT, since they went to Cincinnati in a neglected position group, they stick around. They improve JUST enough to fend off new competition mainly due to knowing the play book and almost all of the incoming competition are 5th round picks or later. They actually have an NFL career that will get them a pension and NFL retiree benefits. Only in Cincinnati.

(11-22-2021, 11:14 AM)Whatever Wrote: 5 of Burrow's 11 interceptions have come on play action.  He's also been sacked on 8 of 73 play action Dropbacks.

(12-07-2021, 01:26 AM)Housh Wrote: Seeing as our line can’t protect long enough for Burrow to comfortably look for routes down the field no.

(01-03-2022, 07:27 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

So what do we do now?

(12-07-2021, 01:26 AM)Housh Wrote: Seeing as our line can’t protect long enough for Burrow to comfortably look for routes down the field no. If we do slide into playoffs i don’t see us beating any of the top AFC teams

(01-03-2022, 07:45 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: OL for you guys is horrible. I honestly wouldn’t mind losing in the first game because yall cannot protect Burrow, as I don’t see yall making it to the super bowl anyway. Need several changes and JB is the franchise. Don’t ruin him.

Yall are now seeing how good Joe is at evading the rush. Not sure if they weren’t letting him run before, but he’s doing a good job of it now. But yall are going to get him killed if this OL play continues.