(11-11-2021, 01:14 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: So isn't it time to really start pointing the finger where it truly belongs?

It was Marvin's fault, or not spending in FA or the D Coordinator or the OC, or now Zac, or...

The team has been under performing, underwhelming or just flat out bad since 1991. There is only one consistent part to the team all those years, and it is the family that runs the show. The family that employs the smallest scouting department around, that just refuses to do things anyway besides their own and just never seems committed to placing a championship product on the field. 

We can blame bad drafts, or bad draft strategies, or bad coaching, or not signing the right guys but at the end all those roads lead right back to the Brown family and the lack of a real GM.

Not a shot at you Shake or anyone and yes I know we all have blamed the Brown family before but then the draft rolls around and we argue about how this QB fixes everything or the WR makes the team a Super Bowl team, or we get into the season and start saying the DC sucks or the coach sucks and it's like we forget the puppet master pulling the strings, cashing checks and laughing all the way to the bank.

(11-12-2021, 04:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The guys you use to beef up your list (like Geno and Dunlap) were either washed or mentally checked out.

(11-12-2021, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how Dunlap was not "washed up or mentally checked out" under winning coaches like Marvin and Pete Carroll.

He was productive when he played for a coach who knew how to coach.

(11-12-2021, 03:24 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote:

(11-09-2021, 04:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We were 5-4, and had 2 wins against playoff teams (Ravens, Colts).

(11-12-2021, 07:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Heck, Geno isn't even in the league now. Guess that's why you zeroed in on Dunlap.

(11-12-2021, 07:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This whole, Zac couldn't get anything out of Dunlap, Geno and AJ angle is silly when he's "getting" plenty out of their replacements.

(11-13-2021, 01:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Atkins went to the Pro Bowl in '19.

(11-13-2021, 01:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, it takes a really special coach to get production out of a $15 million a year free agent.

(11-13-2021, 02:49 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: AJ, Dunlap and Atkins were also highly paid players?

(11-13-2021, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And proof that Taylor sucks because he got nothing form them.

I don't even know what kind of point you are trying to make now.  I don't know any coach that gets absolutely nothing out of any high paid players, but when one coachs fails to get production from a few of them I think that makes the coach look bad.

(11-13-2021, 10:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: ...because they were either washed up (Geno) or checked out (AJ and Dunlap).

You're just playing dumb to win a debate, Fred. Regardless of how much a player is getting paid, if his body quits on him, he's done. If a player is done with an organization after years of losing, what can the coach do? Is he supposed to rah-rah him into compliance?

That sure didn't work on Corey Dillon or Takeo Spikes for Marv.

(11-14-2021, 01:17 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Geno was injured his last year and just getting older. AJ had what not played football for a year and a half and not the same player he was but I don't personally feel was used the best in 2020 but that's another debate. Now for Dunlap he certainly wasn't washed up but maybe not the player he was but he certainly was not checked out mentally. If he was he wouldn't have been so upset with the benching he would just sit on the sidelines and collect his money. I think his beef was the coaches didn't have the sack/respect enough to sit down and talk to him about the situation. Who wouldn't be after 10 years and putting in the kind of work these guys do. 

(11-14-2021, 01:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All of this is based on speculation though. The only thing we know is that he wanted out for whatever reason, and he played much better when he left. You can debate whether that was lack of effort or poor scheme fit, but none of that is Zac's fault.

Just as it wasnt Marv's fault he couldn't get Takeo or Corey to buy in. That often happens with tenured vets during a regime change.

(11-14-2021, 01:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  You can debate whether that was lack of effort or poor scheme fit, but none of that is Zac's fault.

(11-14-2021, 11:06 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Maybe I came into this late. I'm not saying it's Zac's fault. But I don't think it's speculation why Dunlap wanted out. He was moved to 2nd string without being talked to by the coaches ( that is Dunlap's side of the story ) and he went media with it when it happened. Then they bumped him to 3rd string after they picked up Hunt and he posted a pic of the depth chart. His relationship with Lou had completely fallen apart which came to a head when they got into a heated argument at the end of the Cleveland game.

(11-14-2021, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He wanted to play for a competent coach who respected his ability.

How many posts have I seen talking about how even though we were losing Zac's biggest strength was "winning over the players".  Then when he runs off a good productive player it his not his fault?  Can't have it both ways.

(11-14-2021, 01:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That often happens with tenured vets during a regime change.

(11-11-2021, 02:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So how exactly did Marvin control our free agency policy from 1991 until he became coach in 2003?

It is absurd to argue that Marvin ( and Coslet, and Shula, and LeBeau) did not want better players in free agency.

(11-15-2021, 02:26 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Well Fred, feel free to contact the author of the Athletic article, who talked to Marvin and Mike Brown, and take it up with him.