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+--- Thread: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton (/thread-3013.html)
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes, I comprehend just fine.
When you look at the sum total of his entire career Andy Dalton has played in the toughest division in football during his career.
Right?
One of the toughest, yes.
I think the NFCW edges them out by just a bit, but the AFCN has definitely been the best in the conference.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - fredtoast - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:38 AM)djs7685 Wrote: What the hell is your issue?
I don't have an issue.
You are the one who brags about not having a problem "being a dick".
You are the one who rambles on with long paragraphs that do nothing but attack other posters.
All i do is have conversations about football. I don't consider showing where other people are wrong an "issue" at all.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't have an issue.
You are the one who brags about not having a problem "being a dick".
You are the one who rambles on with long paragraphs that do nothing but attack other posters.
All i do is have conversations about football. I don't consider showing where other people are wrong an "issue" at all.
You have an issue because you do nothing but present strawman arguments.
That's an issue. You feel the need to make things up just to be "right" about something, even though you're arguing against things that people have never said.
I haven't been wrong about anything throughout this thread, so you're doing a very poor job at "showing where other people are wrong" right now.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - muskiesfan - 11-04-2015
If any of you remember me from the old board, you know I'm a fan of Dalton. I'd still take Luck over Dalton though. That's not any knock on Dalton. I've always thought highly of him and I am very happy to see him playing at the level that I thought he was capable of. I just think that with Luck behind our OL that our offense would be even deadlier.
As for Kaepernick, I was never sold on him. I'm not saying that he sucks, he just inherited a very good team. I think you could insert almost any QB for the 49ers and they would have been going to the NFCC regardless. I think we're seeing the real Kaepernick now.
Of the 3 QBs named, my order has not changed from the day they were all drafted. I would still go 1. Luck, 2. Dalton, 3. Kaepernick
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Whacked Wrote: Luck = Major regression
Colin = Just got benched
AD = 4 playoffs in a row and 7-0 and leading the NFL in a few QB categories
YO AD Haters ....... Where u at?
/Thread
Dalton does look substantially better than those 2 this season no question.
I just hope he keeps it up cause i doubt Luck will continue his bad play for years to come.
The Colts will eventually fix that O-line.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - PDub80 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 10:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Why does everybody always bring up the last decade, or the last 8 years or whatever random number they want to pick and choose when discussing the division since Andy has been here? WTF do the 2008 Ravens or 2005 Steelers have anything to do with Andy Dalton??
2011 - AFCN is likely the best division in the NFL. NFCN could be argued, but the AFCN gets it for sending 3 teams to the playoffs.
2012 - Easily could be argued as a push between the AFCN and NFCW. AFCN is hands down the best in the conference and have that year's SB champs.
2013 - We're the only team to go over .500 and make the playoffs, we don't even have the best division in the conference, let alone the NFL where the NFCW reigns supreme.
2014 - Back to another tough year where the AFCN sends 3 teams to the postseason where FOUR teams in the conference miss the playoffs at 9-7. What a crazy year for the AFC. Some of the other divisions like the NFCW still look good, but give it to the AFCN here again.
2015 - Womp womp, wooooooooommmmppppp. Baltimore sucks. Cleveland sucks. Pittsburgh is inconsistent as hell. Cincinnati is a top 5 team in the league. Not really a strong division, but I'll take being undefeated in a weaker division over being 9-7 in the ROUGH N TOUGH PHYSICAL AFCN!
People are silly trying to refute what I'm saying by posting links to something completely irrelevant to the conversation. Being realistic won't hurt you, I promise.
- You realize that when looking at just records that the strength of schedule IN THE DIVISION matters. Sometimes the AFCN teams beat up on each other record wise. I don't think it makes sense to weight their records the same way as most other divisions because the strength of the Steelers, Ravens, & Bengals is so high compared to the other teams in other divisions. How are the top 3 in the AFCN OUTSIDE of the division?
- If you want to evaluate things on just a per year basis, then you are correct. This year the teams have been up and down. The Steelers, in particular, have had key injuries or I think they would be MUCH better. I would argue that you could take a healthy Steelers & Bengals this year and put them in ANY division in football and they would contend or win it. You can't take the top 2 teams out of any other division and say that this year.
- If you want to look at things from a consistency and long term basis in terms of how strong is the AFCN in a particular era, than you are wrong.
I think that it is fair to look at the AFCN from 2000 to now. At the very least I would say the time Marvin Lewis came in with the Bengals to now. Why? Because compared to the rest of the NFL there has been incredible consistency: The Bengals, Steelers, & Ravens have had little turn over in management or coaching over that time compared to the rest of the divisions.
It's no different than acknowledging that the NFCEast was the toughest division throughout the 90's and (mayyyybe) early 2000's. It was because of the Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - PDub80 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 12:12 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Who other thanagoodthe greatest defense of all time defensive team wins a SB with those types of passing numbers?
FIFY
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - djs7685 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 01:29 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - You realize that when looking at just records that the strength of schedule IN THE DIVISION matters. Sometimes the AFCN teams beat up on each other record wise. I don't think it makes sense to weight their records the same way as most other divisions because the strength of the Steelers, Ravens, & Bengals is so high compared to the other teams in other divisions. How are the top 3 in the AFCN OUTSIDE of the division?
- If you want to evaluate things on just a per year basis, then you are correct. This year the teams have been up and down. The Steelers, in particular, have had key injuries or I think they would be MUCH better. I would argue that you could take a healthy Steelers & Bengals this year and put them in ANY division in football and they would contend or win it. You can't take the top 2 teams out of any other division and say that this year.
- If you want to look at things from a consistency and long term basis in terms of how strong is the AFCN in a particular era, than you are wrong.
I think that it is fair to look at the AFCN from 2000 to now. At the very least I would say the time Marvin Lewis came in with the Bengals to now. Why? Because compared to the rest of the NFL there has been incredible consistency: The Bengals, Steelers, & Ravens have had little turn over in management or coaching over that time compared to the rest of the divisions.
It's no different than acknowledging that the NFCEast was the toughest division throughout the 90's and (mayyyybe) early 2000's. It was because of the Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants.
Teams "beating up on each other" within the division doesn't mean so much when you're talking purely about W/L record because every division plays the same amount of division games per year. If you subtract the 6 division games from every team, you're going to end up with the exact same W/L percentage for each division at the end of the year. This is just simple math.
Why are you asking about the top 3 of a division, you realize they have 4 teams in them, right? Can't just pretend the Browns don't exist to strengthen your argument.
The past 10 years have zero relevance to Andy's career, only the last 4 mean anything to this conversation. The AFCN has been the 2nd best division in football for the first 4 years of Andy's career, and looks like it's going to be weak this year due to the Ravens not being as good as advertised and the Steelers suffering some injuries and suspensions.
I don't know why it's so important for some people to think the AFCN plays football in a much different way than the rest of the league. They don't, but yes, they've been the best division in the conference in the last 4 year span. If you look purely at W/L records, they aren't miles ahead of the competition though. We have some perennial contenders, but a lot of people waaaay over exaggerate how great the AFCN really is.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 01:36 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Teams "beating up on each other" within the division doesn't mean so much when you're talking purely about W/L record because every division plays the same amount of division games per year. If you subtract the 6 division games from every team, you're going to end up with the exact same W/L percentage for each division at the end of the year. This is just simple math.
Why are you asking about the top 3 of a division, you realize they have 4 teams in them, right? Can't just pretend the Browns don't exist to strengthen your argument.
The past 10 years have zero relevance to Andy's career, only the last 4 mean anything to this conversation. The AFCN has been the 2nd best division in football for the first 4 years of Andy's career, and looks like it's going to be weak this year due to the Ravens not being as good as advertised and the Steelers suffering some injuries and suspensions.
I don't know why it's so important for some people to think the AFCN plays football in a much different way than the rest of the league. They don't, but yes, they've been the best division in the conference in the last 4 year span. If you look purely at W/L records, they aren't miles ahead of the competition though. We have some perennial contenders, but a lot of people waaaay over exaggerate how great the AFCN really is.
They have been miles ahead of the AFC South. To the tune of 28 wins over the last 3 years.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 01:34 PM)PDub80 Wrote: FIFY
Ben Roethlisberger SB Winning Line:
9 cmp 21 att 42.86 cmp% yards 123 TD 0 Int 2 Rating 22.6
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - bengalguy71 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 02:29 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Ben Roethlisberger SB Winning Line:
9 cmp 21 att 42.86 cmp% yards 123 TD 0 Int 2 Rating 22.6
There are many polls for "The Top Ten Worse QBs To Win a SB" that have him and Eli on the list.
I definitely agree with Eli being on it, and Im guessing that these stats are the reason he is on these polls.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - ochocincos - 11-04-2015
(11-03-2015, 10:05 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Luck plays 6 games a year versus weaker competition too. That and he was supposed to be a much better prospect too, which means he should be able to do more with less.
That said, the experts thought enough about his talent they labeled them paper champions before the season started.
Luck beats up on the AFC South. He has a losing record against the rest of the league.
Indy is further north than Cincy...maybe the Bengals and Colts could swap divisions??
Hey...it could happen...
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - McC - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 02:33 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: There are many polls for "The Top Ten Worse QBs To Win a SB" that have him and Eli on the list.
I definitely agree with Eli being on it, and Im guessing that these stats are the reason he is on these polls.
Yes, but Eli was instrumental in both SB wins. A lot of QB's could've posted Ben's numbers. Almost like the Squeelers won in spite of him. They do differ in that regard.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 02:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Indy is further north than Cincy...maybe the Bengals and Colts could swap divisions??
Hey...it could happen...
I wouldn't want to. I love our rivalries too much.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - jj22 - 11-04-2015
Luck is still a great qb/prospect. Problem is the media picks and chooses who to crown elite and they did so to all of the young darlings after 1 year. Cam, RGII, Kaep, Tanni, Luck, Wilson etc. Dalton was really the only one out of the bunch they never gave a chance to. Even had Cinci's fanbase calling for his head after his first year. The same fan base that should appreciate a winning record/playoff streak. That's why you have to be careful listening to the national media when it comes to Dalton, the ones that will tell you his shovel pass was a play he wouldn't have made in prior years and proof he's a different qb this season.......right.
They should just let these young qb's play out their career and then determine their status. Heck they had Luck a top 3 qb on most "rankings" this summer. Too soon. And now the league has to demand he's injured to cover for his struggles. Luck will be fine, and Kaep under the right system can be a good qb as well. Too much pressure on these young qb's when they're deemed elite after their first year.
The media boosts these qb's up just to make their fall seem all the more worse.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - bengalguy71 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 02:40 PM)McC Wrote: Yes, but Eli was instrumental in both SB wins. A lot of QB's could've posted Ben's numbers. Almost like the Squeelers won in spite of him. They do differ in that regard.
Season play has to come into too though McC.
Roth is much more consistent than Manning.
I dont keep up with these things much, but it was either last year or 2013, Manning was at the 32 number in rankings close to the end of the year.
Keep in mind both SBs Manning won the Giants were 9-7 and 10-6, backing into the playoffs both times depending on other teams to lose to get there.
Another QB that most would be shocked to hear about is Bradshaw.
He was labeled as a not very smart QB. Many calling him stupid.
During the seasons of the 4 SB runs, Chuck Knoll kept switch QBs between him, Terry Hanratty, and Joe Gilliam because of their inconsistency.
Bradshaw benefited from the best defensive unit in the history of the game, a great RB (Franco Harris) FB (Rocky Blier) one of the best, if not THE best, receiving tandem (Lynn Swann and John Stallworth)
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - rfaulk34 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 11:32 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: His numbers are great against the AFC South, average against the rest of the league. On the other hand, Dalton is pretty bad against the North and above average against the rest of the league.
I'd say "average", at 13-13.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 03:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd say "average", at 13-13.
Dalton's AFC North Stat line:
26 Games
58.3 Cmp %
5,936 Yards
6.65 Yards/Attempt
33 TDs
33 Picks
Against the Rest of the NFL:
45 Games
64.7 Cmp %
10817 Yards
7.44 Yards/Attempt
81 TDs
37 Ints
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - rfaulk34 - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 03:10 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Dalton's AFC North Stat line:
26 Games
58.3 Cmp %
5,936 Yards
6.65 Yards/Attempt
33 TDs
33 Picks
Against the Rest of the NFL:
45 Games
64.7 Cmp %
10817 Yards
7.44 Yards/Attempt
81 TDs
37 Ints
Yep. Everything about that North stat line looks average.
RE: Kapernick, Luck and Dalton - WhoDeyWho - 11-04-2015
(11-04-2015, 03:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. Everything about that North stat line looks average.
Almost half of his picks have come in the 26 games versus the division. His numbers are impacted negatively by playing in the AFC North.