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+--- Thread: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe (/thread-31296.html)
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Soonerpeace - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 12:33 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Profootballtalk just said we may have trouble signing guys on the Oline because we generally only guarantee first year of contract FA lineman look for more security than that.
Riley Reiff says hi. But the FO will do what’s necessary. Duke Tobin has helped in the turnaround but he’s been here awhile. The big change was w/o Burrow they get a good QB at some point but Burrow makes them elite. So under Taylor they probably elevate to the Ravens level eventually. Let’s see how Tampa does next year. Arians because he won a SB it’s not him it’s because he has no QB. Taylor is only there because of Burrow. It’s not a fair shake. Taylor engineered great last minute drives in the playoffs. He outcoached several good coaches.
Like I’ve said on several posts, improving the running game at a much much better level will solve a lot of problems. Can you imagine teams trying to defend this offense with safeties not playing deep? Imagine having 4 WR and not worrying about max protect? The key to this offense is unleashing Mixon. Or being able too
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Big_Ern - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 12:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So easy to be a Monday morning QB. Yes we knew the OL was an issue, but so was WR1, Higgins is great, but not the guy who demands double coverage like Chase.
Bengals built a Super Bowl roster, Reiff gets hurt and that was huge blow. We can all do the what if game, what if the FA guard you mention blows out his knee in training camp?
I suggest the Bengals and fans look forward. I suggest the FO evaluate the weaknesses of the Super Bowl roster and make it better through FA (we have a lot of cap money to spend) and the draft.
Sat on a lot of cap this year and almost got joe killed.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Soonerpeace - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:35 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Sat on a lot of cap this year and almost got joe killed.
They made a ton of extra money this year. Ticket revenue, concession revenue, playoff money, merchandise revenue, TV rights money, Super Bowl money, etc. I can promise you they are in a better mood to spend money.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - KillerGoose - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:35 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Sat on a lot of cap this year and almost got joe killed.
Did they? I am seeing Cincinnati had $6m left over this season. That isn't much, roughly 3% of the total cap amount. I could be misreading your comment, though. I am taking "sitting on a lot cap" meaning they had a bunch left over and didn't do anything with it.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - ochocincos - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:35 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Sat on a lot of cap this year and almost got joe killed.
They really didn't.
Only $6.5 mill still remaining in the 2021 cap.
In some previous years, they were still leaving $10+ mill in cap.
2020 - $10.8 mill remaining
2019 - $11.228 mill remaining
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - ladeda - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 12:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So easy to be a Monday morning QB. Yes we knew the OL was an issue, but so was WR1, Higgins is great, but not the guy who demands double coverage like Chase.
Bengals built a Super Bowl roster, Reiff gets hurt and that was huge blow. We can all do the what if game, what if the FA guard you mention blows out his knee in training camp?
I suggest the Bengals and fans look forward. I suggest the FO evaluate the weaknesses of the Super Bowl roster and make it better through FA (we have a lot of cap money to spend) and the draft.
Joe Burrow is the franchise-- we all knew this last offseason. Herbert is the franchise for the Chargers and they stepped up for him with Lindley, Feiler, Slater and Aboushi last offseason. Every Bengals fan knew they had to fix the OL last year--- Joe Burrow's HEALTH is more important than any other position on the roster, including WR1. Sorry, not sorry.
They didn't take the OL seriously last year--- they had the cash to still sign another OL, which was even more critical bc they didn't know how Hopkins would be after returning from surgery and they needed at least 3 guys to begin with. The FO was so clueless, that they drafted some OL that basically need a few years of development and can't help right away. How does that help Burrow last year?
Mike Brown and the FO can shut up---- either sign good lineman for Burrow, or just shut up. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words. Don't tell me about not having the space, bc they do. Don't tell me they have to sign other FA's and that eats up their space--- bc they can sign their own FA's AND still add OL. Don't tell me no one wants to play here, or they have to overpay. I'm hearing a lot of excuses already from Bengals fans regarding cap space. Hint: They have the cap space available to resign their own guys and still add 3 OL.
Just stop making excuses and get it done. Go sign Jensen/Jones, Daniels and a RT. Big signing bonus, so you can have a lower cap hit for 2022 and 2023. If the Bengals don't fix the OL this offseason, it was bc they were cheap and/or stupid. They can easily structure deals with lower cap hits to make a run over the next 3 seasons. I'm just not sure they are willing to do it.
Put up or Shut up time Mike Brown and Katie Blackburn. It is as simple as that. Just get it done. That's your job, get it done.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Big_Ern - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They really didn't.
Only $6.5 mill still remaining in the 2021 cap.
In some previous years, they were still leaving $10+ mill in cap.
2020 - $10.8 mill remaining
2019 - $11.228 mill remaining
Ok, I stand corrected. I was thinking it was closer to 20
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Whatever - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:54 PM)ladeda Wrote: Joe Burrow is the franchise-- we all knew this last offseason. Herbert is the franchise for the Chargers and they stepped up for him with Lindley, Feiler, Slater and Aboushi last offseason. Every Bengals fan knew they had to fix the OL last year--- Joe Burrow's HEALTH is more important than any other position on the roster, including WR1. Sorry, not sorry.
They didn't take the OL seriously last year--- they had the cash to still sign another OL, which was even more critical bc they didn't know how Hopkins would be after returning from surgery and they needed at least 3 guys to begin with. The FO was so clueless, that they drafted some OL that basically need a few years of development and can't help right away. How does that help Burrow last year?
Mike Brown and the FO can shut up---- either sign good lineman for Burrow, or just shut up. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words. Don't tell me about not having the space, bc they do. Don't tell me they have to sign other FA's and that eats up their space--- bc they can sign their own FA's AND still add OL. Don't tell me no one wants to play here, or they have to overpay. I'm hearing a lot of excuses already from Bengals fans regarding cap space. Hint: They have the cap space available to resign their own guys and still add 3 OL.
Just stop making excuses and get it done. Go sign Jensen/Jones, Daniels and a RT. Big signing bonus, so you can have a lower cap hit for 2022 and 2023. If the Bengals don't fix the OL this offseason, it was bc they were cheap and/or stupid. They can easily structure deals with lower cap hits to make a run over the next 3 seasons. I'm just not sure they are willing to do it.
Put up or Shut up time Mike Brown and Katie Blackburn. It is as simple as that. Just get it done. That's your job, get it done.
You act like the FO didn't make a four win team from '20 into the '21 AFC Champions.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Whatever - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 01:43 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He’d be a giant mistake at 15-20 million
Depends. Brown is only 25 and there's not much of an injury risk. He was a 3x Pro Bowler as a RT, but was a good, not great, LT this year. If the Bengals can get him as a RT, it would be a huge upgrade.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - 3wt - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 05:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Thuney was always just a pipe dream at that kind of money, but not signing Zeitler was really frustrating. He would have made a huge difference.This - all by itself
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Soonerpeace - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: You act like the FO didn't make a four win team from '20 into the '21 AFC Champions.
Some of the fan base still acts like it’s last year at this time with their critical takes.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Soonerpeace - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: Depends. Brown is only 25 and there's not much of an injury risk. He was a 3x Pro Bowler as a RT, but was a good, not great, LT this year. If the Bengals can get him as a RT, it would be a huge upgrade.
He been adamant he won’t play RT. Brown is a great teammate but he’s not a hard worker but boy he’s great on game day. He’s not worth his projected 20 million
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Cosmokramer - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:35 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Sat on a lot of cap this year and almost got joe killed.Maybe so, but you cant use all of your cap, teams go through building process, why would you go all in on FA's having no idea what type of team youre going to have, you still have a young QB coming off bad injury, and a team that was last in the league in alot of things. Look at the offensive weapons we have this season, and we still had trouble scoring in the red zone. Now, some of that can be attributed to the OL, some can be bad play calling/routes, some on other teams good defense, but without the weapons we did get, and going strictly high dollar OL in FA, you dont get what we got this year. And in all honesty, they brought in a new OL coach, Reiff, we had Spain, and XSF, also drafted Carman, so why wouldnt you think our Oline would have performed better, they did address it, just didint work out. but now we know what we are capable of, and where we need to spend almost all of our money. I think we are in a much better situation than had we done nothing but OL last season.
We can sit here and say almost got joe killed and this and that, but the fact is, joe is alive and will be healthy for next season
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - ochocincos - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:56 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Ok, I stand corrected. I was thinking it was closer to 20
You're right though that not a lot of financial investment was put into the OL.
Bengals only had $20.6 mill toward the OL this past season.
I was shocked to see Chiefs were near the bottom, only putting $14.3 mill toward the OL, but here's how:
Thuney - $4.5 mill cap hit. Balloons up this upcoming season.
Orlando Brown - rookie deal. $3.4 mill. Will cost a lot to re-sign. Chiefs gave up a lot of draft capital for just the one-year rental.
Creed Humphrey - rook. $1 mill.
Kyle Long - 1-year cheap deal. $1.5 mill.
Austin Blythe - 1-year cheap deal. $1 mill.
Trey Smith - rook. $700k.
There were a few other cheap contracts that were for the backups.
The Bengals could look to structure deals that are cheap in the first 1-2 years and then grow after that, but players want a lot of guaranteed money if that happens. And traditionally, the Bengals don't tend to guarantee much money beyond the first year, allowing them the flexibility to cut if the player doesn't pan out.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Cosmokramer - 02-18-2022
some of you guys act like its easy to sign the best OL in the league, like all we have to do is toss money at them. These guys are getting paid, and they can choose who they wanna play for. Who wanted to play for the bengals after the last 2 seasons, and not knowing what your QB is gonna be like after that injury. You guys all talk about how if Burrow got hurt no other QB would ever wanna play for us again, Well before this season, not many guys were thrilled with playing for the Bengals, you essentially came here to end your career, not gonna get the the playoffs, and the SB is a pipe dream. Now itll get a little easier.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - higgy100 - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:23 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: some of you guys act like its easy to sign the best OL in the league, like all we have to do is toss money at them. These guys are getting paid, and they can choose who they wanna play for. Who wanted to play for the bengals after the last 2 seasons, and not knowing what your QB is gonna be like after that injury. You guys all talk about how if Burrow got hurt no other QB would ever wanna play for us again, Well before this season, not many guys were thrilled with playing for the Bengals, you essentially came here to end your career, not gonna get the the playoffs, and the SB is a pipe dream. Now itll get a little easier.
We have people on this site that literally believe they did nothing on the OL to improve this past off season. They want to get rid of all dead weight if a guy does not become a starter or significant contributor right away. They literally were a dropped pass/ iffy holding call away from winning a SB with a QB who, as great as he is and will be, was responsible for plenty of sacks himself this season.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - rfaulk34 - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 02:54 PM)ladeda Wrote: Joe Burrow is the franchise-- we all knew this last offseason. Herbert is the franchise for the Chargers and they stepped up for him with Lindley, Feiler, Slater and Aboushi last offseason. Every Bengals fan knew they had to fix the OL last year--- Joe Burrow's HEALTH is more important than any other position on the roster, including WR1. Sorry, not sorry.
They didn't take the OL seriously last year--- they had the cash to still sign another OL, which was even more critical bc they didn't know how Hopkins would be after returning from surgery and they needed at least 3 guys to begin with. The FO was so clueless, that they drafted some OL that basically need a few years of development and can't help right away. How does that help Burrow last year?
Mike Brown and the FO can shut up---- either sign good lineman for Burrow, or just shut up. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words. Don't tell me about not having the space, bc they do. Don't tell me they have to sign other FA's and that eats up their space--- bc they can sign their own FA's AND still add OL. Don't tell me no one wants to play here, or they have to overpay. I'm hearing a lot of excuses already from Bengals fans regarding cap space. Hint: They have the cap space available to resign their own guys and still add 3 OL.
Just stop making excuses and get it done. Go sign Jensen/Jones, Daniels and a RT. Big signing bonus, so you can have a lower cap hit for 2022 and 2023. If the Bengals don't fix the OL this offseason, it was bc they were cheap and/or stupid. They can easily structure deals with lower cap hits to make a run over the next 3 seasons. I'm just not sure they are willing to do it.
Put up or Shut up time Mike Brown and Katie Blackburn. It is as simple as that. Just get it done. That's your job, get it done.
Creed Humphrey was a guy i liked and wanted. He went at the end of the 2nd round and very few would have expected him to play as well as he did and grade out at an elite level with PFF, giving up a total of 12 pressures all year (taking the most snaps of any Center in the NFL).
Jackson Carmen went before Humphrey and was expected to eventually take over the RG spot and be a factor. Didn't happen.
Draft is a crap shoot and FA comes with a lot of "i hope". The Bengals could sign the top 2 FA, RT and RG, this year and they could both go down with season ending injuries by game 3, or they could simply not live up to expectations.
Hindsight is a wonderful tool that's not at all usable in the moment.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Big_Ern - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You're right though that not a lot of financial investment was put into the OL.
Bengals only had $20.6 mill toward the OL this past season.
I was shocked to see Chiefs were near the bottom, only putting $14.3 mill toward the OL, but here's how:
Thuney - $4.5 mill cap hit. Balloons up this upcoming season.
Orlando Brown - rookie deal. $3.4 mill. Will cost a lot to re-sign. Chiefs gave up a lot of draft capital for just the one-year rental.
Creed Humphrey - rook. $1 mill.
Kyle Long - 1-year cheap deal. $1.5 mill.
Austin Blythe - 1-year cheap deal. $1 mill.
Trey Smith - rook. $700k.
There were a few other cheap contracts that were for the backups.
The Bengals could look to structure deals that are cheap in the first 1-2 years and then grow after that, but players want a lot of guaranteed money if that happens. And traditionally, the Bengals don't tend to guarantee much money beyond the first year, allowing them the flexibility to cut if the player doesn't pan out.
Yeah they'll be in cap hell soon. This year was their best shot. Hell, if we just drafted the two lineman KC did it would've solved a lot
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - treee - 02-18-2022
First guys off the bench for IOL and T need to be solid, not developmental guys. That is a benchmark for being in a win now mode.
RE: Mike Brown-We want to help Joe - Big Boss - 02-18-2022
The offensive line has to be approached from a "win now" philosophy. Nevermind the obvious health concerns with Burrow. They're three years away from having to pay him an enormous contact, and that's going to effectively handicap our flexibility down the line.
2022-2024 is your window.