(02-27-2022, 07:04 PM)Whatever Wrote: The video really proves nothing, because you are basing your position on the false assumption that if we lined up in a different formation, the Rams would line up the exact same way and play it the exact same way.  

This is a big mistake people make when criticizing play calling.  You can talk about why a play was a bad design or a bad situational call, but when you start going into "shoulda called X" territory, you're getting into a lot of false assumptions.  

Since you're changing the play and the formation and the Rams are not going to line up and play it exactly the same as the video, the only thing we can judge it on is the statistics Fred and Faulk have provided, which is that it is  statistically less likely to yield a first down than passing it or running it out of shotgun.

(02-28-2022, 12:28 AM)Tony Wrote: You cared enough to reply.. Man, I wish be could all be as badass as you...

(02-28-2022, 12:40 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Burrow lines up under center with no other difference and how and why would they have lined up different?

In what way could they logically have reacted differently?

See, the flaw in your argument is that the defense played it like they knew we were going to run, so what's the difference for them if Burrow is in shotgun or not?

(02-27-2022, 01:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If "fooling the defense" makes any difference then running with Burrow under center would even be worse because we are even more likely to run from that formation.

So what exactly is your point?  Why is it better for JB to be under center when we run on short yardage

(02-28-2022, 02:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Rams aren't playing run.  They're playing pass.  You can tell because both ends are lined up in a two point stance on the outside shoulders of the OT's.  If they were playing run, they'd be lined up tighter and they'd be in a three point stance to get leverage, which they would logically do based on tendency if you come out under center.  

If you pause your clip at 0:06, you can clearly see that if Donald doesn't destroy Adeniji and discard him to the inside, there's actually a hole there and potential blockers out in front for a possible big gain.  It's not a play call or play design issue.  It's a talent issue, specifically Adeniji.

It's honestly really frustrating to break this down presnap and frame by frame.  Donald is lined up over Adeniji's outside shoulder, almost over Prince, and the other DT is lined up over Spain's inside shoulder, leaving a massive hole in the A gap.  The Rams are blitzing a LB off the left side to stop Hopkins from helping Adeniji.  Adeniji doesn't even have to get a push.  He just has to pin Donald outside which should be relatively easy given the leverage Donald gives up presnap, but he still gets utterly annihilated.

(02-28-2022, 12:40 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Burrow lines up under center with no other difference and how and why would they have lined up different?

(02-26-2022, 05:30 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Brad is 100% correct

YouTube is a good place to learn the fundamentals of football.

(02-27-2022, 01:06 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Running out of the shotgun has everything to do with “fooling the defense”.  For you to state otherwise is simply, ignorance!

(02-28-2022, 03:45 AM)Nickslycat Wrote:  I apologize if you are incapable of understanding a simple principle of football.


I don’t think you are dense, I just think you are incapable of admitting when you are wrong.

(02-28-2022, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: LBs line up differently for two different reasons.

1.  In short yardage situations we run the ball more often when Burrow lines up under center.

2.  When Burrow receives the ball in shotgun he can throw immediately.  Under center he has to take at least a two step drop.  A LB lined up in the gap at the LOS can still drop in coverage if Burrow drops to pass.  A LB lined up in the gap at the LOS has no chance to drop even a step playing against Burrow in the gun.

You don't have a video of Perine making the first down in order to prove you are right.  Instead you play a video of Perine getting stuffed and play "make believe".  There is no way to say that the play would have unfolded exactly the same way if Burrow lines up under center.

You said so yourself that your opinion was based on "common sense" i.e. what "commonly" happens.  But stats prove that what "commonly happens" is that RBs convert more often in short yardage situations when they get the ball in the shotgun formation than with the QB under center. 

So that puts the burden on you to explain what was so "uncommon" about this particular play with Perine that would make the results different from what "common sense" tells us would more likely happen. 

(02-28-2022, 12:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The one linebacker blitzes immediately and you can tell it's a run blitz because he hits the guard head on and doesn't try and shoot the gap or anything. 

It also looks like the strong safety starts towards the line at the snap.

There is such a thing as disguising defenses. In fact, the ends are in a two-point stance but they don't rush upfield like they're going to rush the passer, they just stay in the same spot or maybe take a step forward. They were playing the run. 

Donald is pushing the linemen inside and holding his ground, not rushing into the backfield. He's definitely playing the run.

(02-28-2022, 02:02 PM)Whatever Wrote: No, the blitzing LB gets picked up by Jonah who is down blocking. He is trying to attack Spain's outside shoulder.  

The SS looks to be moving up as part of a coverage rotation.  Notice how the CB at the top of the screen completely bails into a deep zone?  That's a dead giveaway that they aren't playing run off the snap.

The DE's get held by Boyd coming in jet sweep motion and Uzomah coming in reverse motion.  Not to mention they know it's some kind of run when the Bengals fire off the LoS instead of dropping into pass sets.  They are in a bad defense for the Bengals play call, but win the rep anyway thanks to Donald wrecking Adeniji.  

(02-28-2022, 02:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: No. The only reason the CB would bail deep is because if there was no safety help over the top.

It's obviously a run blitz.

(02-28-2022, 01:55 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My proof is right there.  If Perine had been running at the line from the snap, he would have gotten the needed yardage because the defense collapsed the line at the snap.

(02-27-2022, 12:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Seems to me if we need 1 yard, line them up in the I formation with Shelvin taught to play fullback ala Peko. The line engages into a stalemate as usual, Shelvin then blasts it with his huge body, and Mixon goes over the top. 1st down.

(02-28-2022, 03:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except the defense would have been different.  Everyone here is pointing this out to you, but you refuse to listen.

Youy have no proof.  You have a video that does not show what would have happened if Burrow had lined up under center.

And you refuse to explain what is so "uncommon" about this particular short yardage run so that "common sense" does not apply.  Stats prove that the most "common" outcome is that a RB has a better chance of converting a short yardage situation getting the ball in the shotgun instead of with the QB under center.

(02-28-2022, 03:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: They had a single high S.  

I'm not conceding this is a "run blitz" by a long shot, but it doesn't matter if it is or isn't for this discussion.

The Rams can't play this alignment with the QB under C.  Know why?

Look at it presnap.  One DT is lined up on the C's outside shoulder and the other is lined up on the RG's outside shoulder.  All the QB has to do is goose the C and stick it in the A gap for an easy 1st down.  The Rams have to check to something else with the QB under C.  


Not to mention, the Bengals can't run a reasonable facsimile of their play due to the jetsweep motion of Boyd and reverse action of CJ interfering with Burrow trying to get the handoff to Perrine.  

(02-28-2022, 04:13 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How would the defense be different?

Who pointed it out?  

(02-28-2022, 03:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Look at it presnap.  One DT is lined up on the C's outside shoulder and the other is lined up on the RG's outside shoulder.  All the QB has to do is goose the C and stick it in the A gap for an easy 1st down.  The Rams have to check to something else with the QB under C.  

(02-28-2022, 03:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not to mention, the Bengals can't run a reasonable facsimile of their play due to the jetsweep motion of Boyd and reverse action of CJ interfering with Burrow trying to get the handoff to Perrine.  

(02-28-2022, 04:23 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Taylor admits that Mixon should have been in the game.

If the Rams check to something else with Burrow under center, that means that they're weak off tackle because they'd need a guard on each side of Burrow and linebackers near the line.

Give it to Mixon, or even Perine, with a head-start and there's no way backers or linemen could have stopped him from getting a yard. He almost got it from giving them more time to crash the line and without as much speed.

(02-28-2022, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here




Also points out that we could not even have ran the same play with Burrow under center




So if Burrow lines up under center not only does the Rams defense changes, but we also have to change the play.

So just saying "watch the video and play pretend" does not work here.