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+--- Thread: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag (/thread-32568.html)
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - BengalsBong - 07-15-2022
Zim said on a podcast about a week ago that the only time the national media hypes our players up is when they are in a contract year to blow up their value, so the Bengals have to overpay for them. In turn that hurts the Bengals which the national media loves because that plays to their bias of Mike Brown being worst owner and they should be forced to sell the franchise.
If you ask them how good Jessie is as a player, they will say he is just average not even top ten.
If you ask how much money, he should be paid by the Bengals they say top 3 money.
Jessie listened to the hype and fell for the trap like other Bengals has done in the past.
After the Bengals invested a 1st round pick in a safety to replace a 25-year-old guy that should have re-signed. Jessie is gone after this year as soon as we had to invest a 1st round pick. We could have signed Jessie and used the picks to bolster the roster.
I am glad we got Dax think he will be much better with much more range than Bates.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - NUGDUKWE - 07-15-2022
(07-15-2022, 07:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well we saved about $11 Mil this year because it wasn't guaranteed.
Well I didn't mean guarantee the whole contract. My understanding was they only offered him 4mil more in guarantees than the tag. So maybe 16mil? But if we are gonna not give up on Bates for at least a few years than why not guarantee the first few years in salary. More like 30 to 40 mil. My point on Waynes is we gave him a 42mil contract and then spent most of that anyway so a large guarantee doesn't really seem to hurt you anymore even in the worst case scenario.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - J24 - 07-15-2022
(07-15-2022, 10:36 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Zim said on a podcast about a week ago that the only time the national media hypes our players up is when they are in a contract year to blow up their value, so the Bengals have to overpay for them. In turn that hurts the Bengals which the national media loves because that plays to their bias of Mike Brown being worst owner and they should be forced to sell the franchise.
If you ask them how good Jessie is as a player, they will say he is just average not even top ten.
If you ask how much money, he should be paid by the Bengals they say top 3 money.
Jessie listened to the hype and fell for the trap like other Bengals has done in the past.
After the Bengals invested a 1st round pick in a safety to replace a 25-year-old guy that should have re-signed. Jessie is gone after this year as soon as we had to invest a 1st round pick. We could have signed Jessie and used the picks to bolster the roster.
I am glad we got Dax think he will be much better with much more range than Bates.
Jessie was an all pro 2nd team and the #1 Safety according to PFF in 2020. He also had a phenomenal post season where he had 6 pass breakups and 2 Ints.
FYI the Dax Hill is a better Nickle than deep Safety so he could very coexist with Bates.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Whatever - 07-16-2022
(07-15-2022, 11:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Jessie was an all pro 2nd team and the #1 Safety according to PFF in 2020. He also had a phenomenal post season where he had 6 pass breakups and 2 Ints.
FYI the Dax Hill is a better Nickle than deep Safety so he could very coexist with Bates.
The issue is that Bates's great '20 season when he had a 90.1 PFF grade is sandwiched in between poor '19 and '21 seasons where he graded 61.2 and 56.1.
Bates can play at an elite level. He just doesn't most of the time for various reasons. That's why he doesn't deserve to be paid like a Top 5 S and get a truck full of guaranteed money. The Bengals were dumb to FT him. After last year, it should have been clear an extension wasn't getting done.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - QueenCity - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 12:07 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals were dumb to FT him. After last year, it should have been clear an extension wasn't getting done.
Agreed with everything but this line. Gotta go all in this year... Bates assuming he plays will help.
Only argument you could make is travel back in time and get us a 2nd round pick somehow... and hope that pick is ready to go this season.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Whatever - 07-16-2022
(07-15-2022, 10:13 PM)samhain Wrote: He probably is, but he's lacks the NFL experience and smarts that Bates showed in droves during the playoffs. Dax definitely provides them with insurance, and maybe a better player in time, but does he provide that in 2022?
The single high shell that Bates plays well is a tough ask for a rookie. I guess time will tell.
The big question is who's better, a rookie Dax Hill with full OTA's and TC or Bates with no OTA's or TC trying to hypothetically play his way into shape and lacking the mental fortitude to be able to handle playing in a contract year? Keep in mind that a lot of S's drafted early can immediately come in and play at a high level.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - PDub80 - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 12:15 AM)Whatever Wrote: The big question is who's better, a rookie Dax Hill with full OTA's and TC or Bates with no OTA's or TC trying to hypothetically play his way into shape and lacking the mental fortitude to be able to handle playing in a contract year? Keep in mind that a lot of S's drafted early can immediately come in and play at a high level.
I believe that for the Buccs last SB that Winfield jr was their starting S as a rookie.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - ATOTR - 07-16-2022
It needs to be extrapolated again.
Mike browns net worth has zero impact on the operational contracts
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - fredtoast - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 01:10 AM)ATOTR Wrote: It needs to be extrapolated again.
Mike browns net worth has zero impact on the operational contracts
And don't forget about Andy Dalton. He should also be extrapolated.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - grampahol - 07-16-2022
Bates's agent seems to want to play a game of chicken with his career and it could all blow up in his face over it. I'm not saying it will, but if it does he wouldn't be the first player to try to play hardball with the billionaire class and lose. Team owners, including Mr Brown are in that class and don't like to lose to little peons like mere football players. They tend to close ranks when someone tries to strong arm them as they see it and essentially blackball them out and suddenly said player is on the outside looking in. It's a really exclusive club. That aside I'm not sure Brown is going to play along with getting strong armed. Players all seem to want to close ranks for Bates so it's an odd type of situation we don't often see in Bengaldom.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Emeritus - 07-16-2022
I agree with Jessie for wanting to maximize his value on the first big deal. The problem with that is unfortunately he picked the wrong organization to play hardball with and his agent failed him imo. He'll sign the tag eventually or at least he has until Nov 15th or his season will be lost with nothing to show for it.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Soonerpeace - 07-16-2022
Bates agent David Mulugheta is aggressive. He’s all about his reputation and not the client’s best interests. But I think in this case Jessie wants all the money he can get. That’s fine it’s his and his families income. The Browns and Mixon had a lovely experience in his new contract. But he didn’t have an agent like Jessie. These agents are just like managers in the world. You get some who only care about numbers and it blinds their human responsibility. Bates would have resigned had he cared about being here. Rest assured the Browns care about their football players. Are they conservative? Very much so. But the younger Browns are more in charge and like the winning and the city’s mood and how it reflects on them. They’ve had some negative connotations throughout the years. They care about their reputation. It’s a little bit of an unknown what the real numbers are but JMO I doubt Bates was interested in any compromise. And that’s fine… it’s his life to protect. But if he really cared about staying the Browns would have gotten it done.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - grampahol - 07-16-2022
Maybe Mr Brown needs to sit Jesse down and explain how playing hardball works. "Look son, I might not be the greatest football mind in the world, but I do know dollars and cents and I didn't get to be a billionaire by losing to the likes of you." A lot of people don't realize Mike Brown wrote a LOT of NFL ownership rules and he has a bit more clout in billionaire circles than anyone likes to admit. This ain't his first rodeo playing hardball and he can afford to gamble with house money. Jesse is gambling with his life here.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Whatever - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 12:14 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Agreed with everything but this line. Gotta go all in this year... Bates assuming he plays will help.
Only argument you could make is travel back in time and get us a 2nd round pick somehow... and hope that pick is ready to go this season.
I don't personally feel tagging Bates was an all in move. An all in move would've been using the offer we made to Bates to sign Marcus Williams who can do everything Bates does and is far more consistent. Then without any glaring needs in the starting lineup going into the draft, trade our first for Mike Gesicki or Dalton Schultz. Now we're sitting on $13 mil in cap space for a guy that we don't even know will play and don't know what his physical/mental state will be if he does all while creating a distraction for a young team.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Earendil - 07-16-2022
(07-15-2022, 03:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If it makes you feel any better Jessie has actually never said anything like that.
It always comes from his agent.
Exactly. I would venture to say that most of this stalemate is coming from the agent.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 12:37 PM)Earendil Wrote: Exactly. I would venture to say that most of this stalemate is coming from the agent.
I wouldn't be paying that guy to represent me that is for damn sure.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - ATOTR - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I wouldn't be paying that guy to represent me that is for damn sure.
He is a really good agent - has made his clients incredible amounts of guaranteed money.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - rfaulk34 - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I wouldn't be paying that guy to represent me that is for damn sure.
You wouldn't hire a guy that top 3 in getting his clients the most guaranteed money?
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - BengalsBong - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 09:08 AM)grampahol Wrote: Bates's agent seems to want to play a game of chicken with his career and it could all blow up in his face over it. I'm not saying it will, but if it does he wouldn't be the first player to try to play hardball with the billionaire class and lose. Team owners, including Mr Brown are in that class and don't like to lose to little peons like mere football players. They tend to close ranks when someone tries to strong arm them as they see it and essentially blackball them out and suddenly said player is on the outside looking in. It's a really exclusive club. That aside I'm not sure Brown is going to play along with getting strong armed. Players all seem to want to close ranks for Bates so it's an odd type of situation we don't often see in Bengaldom.
I agree with this but if they are talented then they stay in the NFL at a pay cut much less than they were trying to get.
RE: Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 07-16-2022
(07-16-2022, 01:52 PM)ATOTR Wrote: He is a really good agent - has made his clients incredible amounts of guaranteed money.
(07-16-2022, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You wouldn't hire a guy that top 3 in getting his clients the most guaranteed money?
Money isn't everything.
To each his own, I would rather of had an extension by now if I was Jessie. This brings a lot of negative energy to a player.
Once you start making this kind of dough it gets to be respect or disrespect and it seems Jessie has been listening to his agent
and feeling disrespected by the Bengals. He needs to move on for this very reason, I don't like the way this has been handled
and for once it isn't on the Bengals FO at all in my opinion.
Bottom line is Jessie Bates hasn't played like a top 5 Safety during his very inconsistent career and he ought to know that.
No Agent should be telling him otherwise jeopardizing his life and his career just to get a few more million.