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+--- Thread: Players are turning on Zac finally (/thread-33386.html)
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Nicomo Cosca - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:05 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Since Zac arrived in Cincinnati, the Bengals have scored 250 points in the first quarter. This ranks 15th best in the league over that timespan.
Since that poster asked about scripted plays specifically this might be more what they were looking for.
I just don't understand how the script is so awful since Zac Taylor took over.
— Andrew Russell (@Andrew_Russell7) October 10, 2022
They have only scored a TD on 9% of their first 15 plays (on script) since the start of 2020. That ranks 28th in the NFL.
Opposite end? Buffalo has scored on 24% of their scripted plays.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - higgy100 - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: something is obviously wrong with the offense, and eventually that falls on the coach. They aren't facing some new defensive scheme developed over the summer. You fix it or find someone who can, and get your ego out of the way.
First off, unless you you're a coach /OC/DC, not sure any of us understand exactly what has been changed by NFL teams from season to season. I do know based on readings that the Ravens, for one, changed their scheme once Wink left. They don't count nearly as much on the blitz.While they may/may not be facing entirely new schemes, I can guarantee you they're seeing things pre-snap they have not seen. This happens in HS football.No different than seeing lots of pre-snap movement by the front 7 where you don't know where the blitz/stunts, etc. are coming from.
This team is not going to put up 30-35 ppg every game. In fact, this game came down to the 4 plays at the 2. We go in there and score it's a totally different ball game and everybody is talking about a great come-back W on the road against the team favored to win the division. And while I'm not a huge ZT fan in calling plays, I don't know how much influence he's getting/accepting/not accepting from Callahan.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Wyche'sWarrior - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 02:40 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I think the frustration comes from a place of Bengals fans knowing this offense could and should be better.
Yes, we are losing some close games and therefor are definitely highly competitive. We are still very much in the race.
Yet the offense has the talent to get at least a field goal on every drive or every drive and a half (and yet we see stretches where the play-calling and execution is terrible). Good OCs maximize the talent at their disposal and find ways to attack the defense's weaknesses. We aren't doing that. We're running a very predictable game plan. At key moments we are coming up with some key drives to keep games close. But too many drives stall before they get started by a couple predictable play calls.
It's an easy fix, they just need to learn (and they're a little slow at this). Zac has a great mindset and is great at motivating the players and assembling a talented team. The jury is still out whether he can develop into an offensive guru/great play caller. So far he's failed to fully utilize the talent at his disposal. Just look at the offense's numbers in the playoffs. Pedestrian, with Joe coming up big late in games. The defense carries this team.
There are coaches that put their players in a great position to succeed with their gameplanning/play calling, and there are those that fail more often then not. Zac is right in the middle kinda like the Andy Dalton spectrum when he was a starter. Just barely good enough to win maybe 65% of the time. Zac has a ways to go to be a top 20 head coach in this league.
Fans are correct to be concerned whether the playcalling and coaching is going to be 'good enough' to win it all. It's common knowledge that when a team rests on talent alone, they fail. Need some brains in the coaching staff to bring out the most of the players.
Fair take. Rep.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Nepa - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 02:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-New-week-another-Zac-apology-for-bad-play-call?pid=1254066#pid1254066
I got a feeling you are acting a little irrational and making things up in your head. Go outside and get some air
thanks for looking it up. I didn't want to take the time to find the counter to "Zac never takes the blame" comment, but I did remember him doing so in the past. And I actually like his demeanor on the field and at the podium. I'm not crazy about those out-of-control coaches who fly off the handle all the time.
The amount of venom being heaped on Zac Taylor after building a team that went to the Super Bowl last year, and has been competitive in every game this year, is a little overboard. In the game day thread, someone said he was the worst coach in the history of the NFL. Does anyone watch other games and see some of the plays they call?
Part of the problem must be expectations among Bengals fans. Vegas had the Bengals 10th in odds, with the Ravens ahead of them, and even the Browns before Watkins suspension was extended. Other authorities do not see the Bengals as this Super Team.
Yes, we haven't figured out cover 2 as yet, mainly because until last game we couldn't get a running game going. But four new OL takes time to gel. The Bengals will figure it out.
Get out your anger about the loss if you need to. But let's not start leaping to speculation "these-players-look-angry-at-Zac" speculation.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - The D.O.Z. - 10-10-2022
Zac needs to give up play calling. And we need better than Brian Callahan. I see people calling for him to be more involved. Who’s to say he already isn’t and is part of the problem?
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Frank Booth - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:38 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Zac needs to give up play calling. And we need better than Brian Callahan. I see people calling for him to be more involved. Who’s to say he already isn’t and is part of the problem?
yep
remember what Hue Jackson was doing with the best weapons in the league in 2015? He was moving people around. Being Creative
Callahan just thinks Jamarr, Tee, and Boyd can just win their matchups regardless of the dfensive looks
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Wyche'sWarrior - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: yep
remember what Hue Jackson was doing with the best weapons in the league in 2015? He was moving people around. Being Creative
Callahan just thinks Jamarr, Tee, and Boyd can just win their matchups regardless of the dfensive looks
For all of the grief Hue gets, I liked him as OC.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - KillerGoose - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:38 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Zac needs to give up play calling. And we need better than Brian Callahan. I see people calling for him to be more involved. Who’s to say he already isn’t and is part of the problem?
Yeah, I don't think many fans realize that Callahan is involved. It's he, Zac and the analytics team, I believe. Callahan deserves plenty of blame, he isn't the savior some hope he is.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Frank Booth - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: For all of the grief Hue gets, I liked him as OC.
same. The browns HC gig really ruined his rep
guy was a very good oc with oakland too
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - higgy100 - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, I don't think many fans realize that Callahan is involved. It's he, Zac and the analytics team, I believe. Callahan deserves plenty of blame, he isn't the savior some hope he is.
Interesting, and true, as I am not aware just how much blame he has. I realize ZT has final say but there's a collaborative effort of failure here that few even realize. There are meeting going on hourly thru the week with coaches from analytics to QC coaches to QB coach to OC to HC.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - bengalfan74 - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I was hearing something about Jamarr's routes this season and they said there's no creativity to it. They're running him right into the cover 2
Thats really on the design by Callahan
I've heard the same. He's only running like 4 routes or something?
Who it's on? Dunno for sure. But it's my belief, and I could be wrong? Zac is the Big Cheese when it comes to the scheme/game plan/ paly calling of the O. And IMHO, he sucks at it.
If it is Callahan? he sucks at it.
This offense has to many weapons, to good a QB to be struggling the way it is!!!
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Mer - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 01:50 PM)Tony Wrote: Don't forget 0-2 in the division. The division is pretty much a wrap already. Baltimore will sweep Pissburgh and Cleveland.. Also% the schedule is Brutal. I can't see them finishing with more than 8 wins at this point esp with Zac. Expect more late game flops and getting out coached..
It doesn't matter what your record is within the division if you have the best overall record out of everyone in the division. This season is far from over and all the chicken littles will be back on the bandwagon soon.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - bengalfan74 - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, I don't think many fans realize that Callahan is involved. It's he, Zac and the analytics team, I believe. Callahan deserves plenty of blame, he isn't the savior some hope he is.
I don't hate Zac. He took this team to a place it hasn't been (helped anyways) since I was a young man. I don't want Zac fired.
But for the love of gawd ! Please somebody do something with this offense. We've got too good of weapons for this offense to look like a decombooberated dumpster fire the majority of the time.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - rfaulk34 - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:01 PM)Tony Wrote: https://youtu.be/VsZtkXfsxdc
lol. That had nothing to do with not supporting his coach.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Tony - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 04:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: lol. That had nothing to do with not supporting his coach.
Of course it did. He is saying the players can only play with thencards are dealt .. That is directly toward the coaching.. They make all the calls.. What do you think he is referring to if not coaching?
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - TecmoBengals - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 04:10 PM)Tony Wrote: Of course it did. He is saying the players can only play with thencards are dealt .. That is directly toward the coaching.. They make all the calls.. What do you think he is referring to if not coaching?
Hell, he could be referencing their own talent, or lack thereof. I didn't watch it yet to develop an opinion. I'm guessing Mixon isn't dogging his on field peers.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Nepa - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 04:10 PM)Tony Wrote: Of course it did. He is saying the players can only play with thencards are dealt .. That is directly toward the coaching.. They make all the calls.. What do you think he is referring to if not coaching?
I can see where you can draw that conclusion, Tony. Basically, there is a question put to Mixon about whether he would like Zac to put it more on his back and he says, "whatever is called, that's on him. I'm just playing the cards that are dealt." He basically has the same answer in terms of whether you feel they are getting off to a slow start in games and says, "just playing the cards dealt to us."'
But if that is criticism, it is really, really minor. That is not turning on Zac. That's just a mature way of saying, "I have my area of responsibility and my job is to execute in that area." And at some point, he states that quite clearly, in terms of players needing to execute, stating, "when a play was called, we needed to deliver."
Overall, it was a very thoughtful and mature answer to the questions posed.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Destro - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 03:10 PM)TKUHL Wrote: We have very good players and very poor coaches. That’s all there is to it. So frustrating knowing what this team is capable of yet it feels like the coaching is holding this offense back. Like I said in the game thread last night. We have some bright stars on this offense, but Zac & Co. are a huge cloud keeping them from shining. So damn frustrating.
Very true, though a few players do suck. Team appears, on paper to be far and away to be above their record, but something holds them back.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - KillerGoose - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 04:49 PM)Destro Wrote: Very true, though a few players do suck. Team appears, on paper to be far and away to be above their record, but something holds them back.
Yeah. At a simple level, there is only three answers...
- The roster is awesome but the coaches are holding the team back.
- We as Bengals fans are overrating how good the players are.
- A combination of 1 & 2.
RE: Players are turning on Zac finally - Nicomo Cosca - 10-10-2022
(10-10-2022, 04:54 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah. At a simple level, there is only three answers...
- The roster is awesome but the coaches are holding the team back.
- We as Bengals fans are overrating how good the players are.
- A combination of 1 & 2.
I don’t think it’s a matter of overrating the players. We saw so many of them play at an extremely high level last season, including in the playoffs.
I’d say it’s much more likely the talent was winning in spite of the mediocre coaching, and it’s finally caught up to them.