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RE: Most Overrated Bengals - fredtoast - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:43 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Has contributed basically nothing, yet some board members still rave about his potentional.
No one is still raving about his potential.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - OrlandoBengal - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is still raving about his potential.
Really? Because I remember it being mentioned going into this past season and even during. You really can't help yourself, can you??
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - fredtoast - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:52 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Really? Because I remember it being mentioned going into this past season and even during. You really can't help yourself, can you??
"Still" means currently.
And, yes, I can't help but speak the truth. Sorry that bothers you.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - gobobro - 02-02-2016
For the sake of discussion, I'll throw Boomer out there. I think people romanticize Boomer because they remember a couple of seasons around the Super Bowl appearance, and those final seven games in '97. Those were a ton of fun, but they account for 4-5 years of a 14 year career. He was pretty forgettable for many of the other years, and pretty bad for the rest...
When I close my eyes, I think immediately think of those fake handoffs that fooled the cameraman, the Super Bowl run, and the magic of those last games of his career. Then I remember that for all that cannon arm could do, he could also miss every throw in the playbook, shank the broad side of a barn from seven yards away, look like a dick instead of a rallying leader, and was legitimately booed at the end of his first tenure with the team... In the end, he got that last shot at glory because the entire rest of the league thought he was a bum by '97. Imagine how low he had to sink to return to the franchise he still dislikes as nothing more than a backup.
Boomer's '88 and '97 were great. His '86 was really fun, too (which really made that stinker of an '87 hurt!)... But I've just never understood the reverence some give him. I think younger guys only saw him play in '97, know he took them to a SB in the 80's, and see him on TV now. They draw the conclusion he was way more than he really was.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - fredtoast - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 12:09 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "Fun" (depressing) fact. Despite flopping between OT and DT and appearing in just 7 games in the NFL, Jason Shirley still has both more sacks and forced fumbles than Margus Hunt and Will Carke combined.
"True" fact. Through the first three years of his career Jason Shirley had zero sacks while Clarke and Hunt have 2.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:57 PM)gobobro Wrote: For the sake of discussion, I'll throw Boomer out there. I think people romanticize Boomer because they remember a couple of seasons around the Super Bowl appearance, and those final seven games in '97. Those were a ton of fun, but they account for 4-5 years of a 14 year career. He was pretty forgettable for many of the other years, and pretty bad for the rest...
When I close my eyes, I think immediately think of those fake handoffs that fooled the cameraman, the Super Bowl run, and the magic of those last games of his career. Then I remember that for all that cannon arm could do, he could also miss every throw in the playbook, shank the broad side of a barn from seven yards away, look like a dick instead of a rallying leader, and was legitimately booed at the end of his first tenure with the team... In the end, he got that last shot at glory because the entire rest of the league thought he was a bum by '97. Imagine how low he had to sink to return to the franchise he still dislikes as nothing more than a backup.
Boomer's '88 and '97 were great. His '86 was really fun, too (which really made that stinker of an '87 hurt!)... But I've just never understood the reverence some give him. I think younger guys only saw him play in '97, know he took them to a SB in the 80's, and see him on TV now. They draw the conclusion he was way more than he really was.
Fair points, but didn't he break a single game yardage record on a pretty shitty Cards team? Or was that in New York? Boomer never really played on any great teams, save for a couple here.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - fredtoast - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:57 PM)gobobro Wrote: For the sake of discussion, I'll throw Boomer out there. I think people romanticize Boomer because they remember a couple of seasons around the Super Bowl appearance, and those final seven games in '97. Those were a ton of fun, but they account for 4-5 years of a 14 year career. He was pretty forgettable for many of the other years, and pretty bad for the rest...
Boomer finished in the top ten.......
Passing yards seven times
Passing tds seven times
Passer rating 5 times
He is no Hall-of-famer, but he won a league MVP trophy and went to a Super Bowl. In his 10 years as a Bengal QB he only had a losing record as a starter 4 times.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 01:43 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I was planning to bring up Margus Hunt. In my opinion, complete waste of a second round pick. Has contributed basically nothing, yet some board members still rave about his potentional.
It was a horrible 2nd round pick....Zimmer or Hayes really flubbed that one. That guy sucks. Just look at the names after him in that draft.....guys like Eddie Lacy, Travis Kelce, Larry Warford, Honey Badger, Markus Wheaton, Okafor, Latavius Murray, ......some pretty good players.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - fredtoast - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:07 PM)Wyche Wrote: Just look at the names after him in that draft.....guys like Eddie Lacy, Travis Kelce, Larry Warford, Honey Badger, Markus Wheaton, Okafor, Latavius Murray, ......some pretty good players.
You mean the guys that all 31 other teams in the NFL had also passed on at that point?
Amazing how easy the NFL draft is when you have 3 years of hindsight on your side.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - RoyleRedlegs - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:07 PM)Wyche Wrote: It was a horrible 2nd round pick....Zimmer or Hayes really flubbed that one. That guy sucks. Just look at the names after him in that draft.....guys like Eddie Lacy, Travis Kelce, Larry Warford, Honey Badger, Markus Wheaton, Okafor, Latavius Murray, ......some pretty good players.
Our last few defensive drafts under Zimmer were pretty shitty tbh.
Margus Hunt (2)
Devon Still (2)
Brandon Thompson (3)
Sean Porter (4)
Shaun Prater (5)
Dontay Moch (3)
Robert Sands (5)
Korey Lindsey (7)
Between 2011 and 2013 under Zimmer, we drafted 2 starters. One of them is a much maligned CB. The other is Iloka up for FA and has to be retained.
Shawn Williams is another potential keeper too. He's looked good. Outside of that...those are some pretty pricey draft picks that have been absolute shit and how many are out of the league or on their way out?
Oh and I nominate Robert Sands for this thread too.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Shake n Blake - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: Fair points, but didn't he break a single game yardage record on a pretty shitty Cards team? Or was that in New York? Boomer never really played on any great teams, save for a couple here.
He threw for 522 yards in a game with the Cards, which still ranks 4th all-time. He had a couple solid seasons with the Jets.
(02-02-2016, 02:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boomer finished in the top ten.......
Passing yards seven times
Passing tds seven times
Passer rating 5 times
He is no Hall-of-famer, but he won a league MVP trophy and went to a Super Bowl. In his 10 years as a Bengal QB he only had a losing record as a starter 4 times.
Yep. When you compare Boomer to his peers, he was one of the top QBs in the NFL for a good stretch. He had some bad seasons for really BAD teams, but when he had competent players around him, he was definitely a top 10 NFL QB.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - RoyleRedlegs - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean the guys that all 31 other teams in the NFL had also passed on at that point?
Amazing how easy the NFL draft is when you have 3 years of hindsight on your side.
Most of those players were already pretty good at football though.
Hunt was a giant "What if..." he was already advanced in age, limited in football, not a bender and piled his stats vs a lot of kids 4 years his junior or more. He was a grown ass man beating up 19 year olds.
He never should have been a second round pick. Everything about him said "mid-to-late"
But people saw he ran in a straight line well and was very strong. Then he hit the absurd DE benchmarks we have for height-weight.
Recipe for disaster.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean the guys that all 31 other teams in the NFL had also passed on at that point?
Amazing how easy the NFL draft is when you have 3 years of hindsight on your side.
Eddie Lacy, Larry Warford, and Honey Badger were not exactly unknowns freddy.....how many had even heard of Margus Hunt? Shit, how many people realized SMU was even playing football again?
I can see passing on Lacy because of the Bernard pick, but Warford and Matthews could've helped, and no, 31 other teams did not pass up those guys in the SECOND round, there were nine other picks behind Hunt in that round, one of which was Eddie Lacy.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:48 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Our last few defensive drafts under Zimmer were pretty shitty tbh.
Margus Hunt (2)
Devon Still (2)
Brandon Thompson (3)
Sean Porter (4)
Shaun Prater (5)
Dontay Moch (3)
Robert Sands (5)
Korey Lindsey (7)
Between 2011 and 2013 under Zimmer, we drafted 2 starters. One of them is a much maligned CB. The other is Iloka up for FA and has to be retained.
Shawn Williams is another potential keeper too. He's looked good. Outside of that...those are some pretty pricey draft picks that have been absolute shit and how many are out of the league or on their way out?
Oh and I nominate Robert Sands for this thread too.
Wow....no doubt. When you see it in print, you have a WTF moment for sure.....yikes.
(02-02-2016, 02:52 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Most of those players were already pretty good at football though.
Hunt was a giant "What if..." he was already advanced in age, limited in football, not a bender and piled his stats vs a lot of kids 4 years his junior or more. He was a grown ass man beating up 19 year olds.
He never should have been a second round pick. Everything about him said "mid-to-late"
But people saw he ran in a straight line well and was very strong. Then he hit the absurd DE benchmarks we have for height-weight.
Recipe for disaster.
This.....can you imagine Zeitler and Warford as our guards? Hell, we could have moved Boling to C and dominated.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - RoyleRedlegs - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 02:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: Wow....no doubt. When you see it in print, you have a WTF moment for sure.....yikes.
This.....can you imagine Zeitler and Warford as our guards? Hell, we could have moved Boling to C and dominated.
I'm going to paraphrase Kelly Boling to you (Clint's wife)
He has never and will never play center.
He's a guard. Zeitler would be the one to move in if anyone would.
Boling is an elite pulling guard. Would be silly to move him.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 03:06 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I'm going to paraphrase Kelly Boling to you (Clint's wife)
He has never and will never play center.
He's a guard. Zeitler would be the one to move in if anyone would.
Boling is an elite pulling guard. Would be silly to move him.
Really? I thought Clint played some Center, and was considered an option to replace Cook. Hmmm, my memory ain't what it used to be, I trust yours over mine....lol. Either way, those three in the middle would be a pretty good trio, IMO. Agree, he is a good pulling Guard.....a position near and dear to my heart.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - RoyleRedlegs - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 03:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: Really? I thought Clint played some Center, and was considered an option to replace Cook. Hmmm, my memory ain't what it used to be, I trust yours over mine....lol. Either way, those three in the middle would be a pretty good trio, IMO. Agree, he is a good pulling Guard.....a position near and dear to my heart.
I think that was fan speculation and he was the "emergency" center his rookie year when we had a lot of injuries.
I am pretty sure Zeitler has taken a few center reps in camps etc and he's the emergency center now.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 03:12 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I think that was fan speculation and he was the "emergency" center his rookie year when we had a lot of injuries.
I am pretty sure Zeitler has taken a few center reps in camps etc and he's the emergency center now.
This probably what I'm associating him playing C with. Makes my scenario kind of a moot point.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - RoyleRedlegs - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 03:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: This probably what I'm associating him playing C with. Makes my scenario kind of a moot point.
I would just hate to move him from LG. Watching him in space is a treat.
A lot of fans really underrate this aspect of his game.
He rarely misses.
RE: Most Overrated Bengals - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-02-2016
(02-02-2016, 03:22 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I would just hate to move him from LG. Watching him in space is a treat.
A lot of fans really underrate this aspect of his game.
He rarely misses.
I agree with you on that.....it also gets in my crawl when someone says he wasn't that good coming out because he's a 4th rounder. The guy is a good guard in the league, and was a good prospect coming out in the draft. This wasn't some Margus Hunt project on the o line.