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+--- Thread: {The Ultimate Bengals Offseason Extravaganza Thread} (/thread-40291.html)
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RE: Happy Tampering Day - Truck_1_0_1_ - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:16 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why are you placing a self imposed timeline to sign Tee long term?
Watch out for what? More whining and crying by fans? Aren't they out of tears by now?
It's the new league year, so it affects cap space and the like: it ISN'T a big deal like he's being overdramatic about, but it does make the extensions and the like a bit trickier to complete, that's all.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - RunKijanaRun - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:16 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why are you placing a self imposed timeline to sign Tee long term?
Watch out for what? More whining and crying by fans? Aren't they out of tears by now?
There is a significance to 4:00 today, and it has nothing to do with me.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - RunKijanaRun - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:39 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It's the new league year, so it affects cap space and the like: it ISN'T a big deal like he's being overdramatic about, but it does make the extensions and the like a bit trickier to complete, that's all.
How am I being overdramatic? I referenced a deadline, a deadline that can complicate things, as you mention. This franchise has trouble with the easy stuff, and you think it’s a non-event when things become more complex?
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Truck_1_0_1_ - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:44 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: How am I being overdramatic? I referenced a deadline, a deadline that can complicate things, as you mention. This franchise has trouble with the easy stuff, and you think it’s a non-event when things become more complex?
It essentially turns a 1 KM walk into a 5 KM walk: something that is harder, but far from impossible.
IE, being overdramatic.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Essex Johnson - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:04 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: In terms of structures, I think we did alright.but the flip side, Tee gets hurt again, we probably saved $$ in long run by not signing him, Chase is the tough one, but for Bengals trade off is the guarantee $$, if they don't over pay there and a players gets hurt badly, you don;t have dead weight of paying a player that can't play... seems two sides to the coin here. As for Burrow, he mentioned restructure but ive heard nothing else from Burrow on it.. so maybe it was just a pressure move, unless i missed something factual on negotiations.
Slaton has no guaranteed money next year (2026). Perine & Burks have zero Dead Money at all.
Ossai is a 1 year deal, nothing to be done there.
Gesicki only has a $2 mil in dead cap by year 3.
Hill's is not available yet.
OTC has us at $33 mil without Hill & Ossai.
We are getting down to the nub if a Jenkins deal gets done.
Releasing Moss adds a $3 mil.
But again, the failure to get Tee/Chase done and a Burrow restructure is likely costing us iver $30 mil on this year's cap. That is huge.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Essex Johnson - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:39 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: This would make some sense if our pass defense was good when these two were healthy...
You just don;t know with young players, that is the point, growing pains, as a whole they should improve in their 2nd/3rd years, I did not see any major red flags with our young corners. i think they will be better this year, my gut Turner is moving the needle the most of the group,
RE: Happy Tampering Day - ochocincos - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:37 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: depends if they bring Trey back.
if the defense is as bad as last year, but the 2 weakest spots on offense are fixed(Guards), I see 10 wins
they legitimately had the worst guard duo in the league last year, and the offense was still top 10. Countless drives would be ruined because Cappa and Volson couldnt block
For 2025, it doesn't though.
Hendrickson is currently under contract for this year.
Plus, he can be tagged for 2026 and even potentially 2027 if Bengals want to do so.
Although until they have Chase's extension sorted, they probably will want to tag Chase instead.
I agree on the approximate wins.
This team, to me, will be around a 7-9 win team as it stands. Maybe around 9-11 with improved guards.
If they do that AND hit on some draft picks, they may be able to get to 12 wins or so.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2025
I am confident if the Bengals ask JB to restructure (not take a pay cut) he will do it. As of now, we have over 20 million in cap space minimum. The deadline to be under the cap is 4 today, we are far under it so no urgency to restricture Joe, sign Tee long term or extend Chase. The last 2 Chase and Tee would also give us more cap momey.
If the Bengals come to terms with Jenkins or Becton and need cap space, they can get it quickly with JB. But, even signing a high riced guard woud not put us over the cap so again no urgency for FO to restructure JB yet.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - jj22 - 03-12-2025
No player refused to restructure. It means JB will get 55m direct deposit as soon as he says ok.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Nepa - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:19 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: but the flip side, Tee gets hurt again, we probably saved $$ in long run by not signing him, Chase is the tough one, but for Bengals trade off is the guarantee $$, if they don't over pay there and a players gets hurt badly, you don;t have dead weight of paying a player that can't play... seems two sides to the coin here. As for Burrow, he mentioned restructure but ive heard nothing else from Burrow on it.. so maybe it was just a pressure move, unless i missed something factual on negotiations.
If I understand correctly, restructuring Burrow's contract really comes down to The Family making an offer, because it means giving more cash upfront. Generally, it is done by converting salary into a signing bonus, and a signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract. Burrow would not lose by restructuring. The Family, however, would need to convert some of the salary into a signing bonus.
If you heard nothing else from Burrow, it is probably because he needs The Family to make the first move. Burrow let them know that he would be willing to do the restructuring to help with the cap.
Edit: Based on what Luvnit2 identified below (Buffalo Bills' example), there is another way to add cap that does not involve an overly burdensome upfront signing bonus. That is to add voidable years to the end of the contract, that is, years on which the player will never play but which one can spread out the salary and signing bonus. I am adding this now for completeness. As Luvnit2 states, the view that a team (read "Bengals") does not have enough money upfront to create more cap space is ingenuous, since one can use voidable years in creating the cap space. This method is seemingly becoming more popular among teams. And it is done with the idea that since the salary cap is likely to increase year by year, a dollar at the end of the contract will be less costly than a dollar now.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Clark W Griswold - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:34 PM)Nepa Wrote: If I understand correctly, restructuring Burrow's contract really comes down to The Family making an offer, because it means giving more cash upfront. Generally, it is done by converting salary into a signing bonus, and a signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract. Burrow would not lose by restructuring. The Family, however, would need to convert some of the salary into a signing bonus.
If you heard nothing else from Burrow, it is probably because he needs The Family to make the first move. Burrow let them know that he would be willing to do the restructuring to help with the cap.
I guess that would go back to the question of do they have the $ to pay out that large amount all at once? If they do would they even want to do this. I understand it from a team/cap perspective but this doesn’t seem like something they do.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - ochocincos - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:34 PM)Nepa Wrote: If I understand correctly, restructuring Burrow's contract really comes down to The Family making an offer, because it means giving more cash upfront. Generally, it is done by converting salary into a signing bonus, and a signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract. Burrow would not lose by restructuring. The Family, however, would need to convert some of the salary into a signing bonus.
If you heard nothing else from Burrow, it is probably because he needs The Family to make the first move. Burrow let them know that he would be willing to do the restructuring to help with the cap.
What would go into a restructure by Burrow to help the cap?
From my understanding, it would likely require MORE guaranteed money to further spread the cap hit to future years.
And I thought the Bengals mostly had concern with giving too much guaranteed money as it is.
I can't see how giving more guaranteed money to Burrow results in having more guaranteed money to Chase/Higgins.
If Bengals ownership really is strapped for cash to guarantee contracts, they need to find more ways to get cash this/next year....or consider selling the team to someone who can (which they won't do).
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Nicomo Cosca - 03-12-2025
Larry Ogunjobi to the Bills.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What would go into a restructure by Burrow to help the cap?
From my understanding, it would likely require MORE guaranteed money to further spread the cap hit to future years.
And I thought the Bengals mostly had concern with giving too much guaranteed money as it is.
I can't see how giving more guaranteed money to Burrow results in having more guaranteed money to Chase/Higgins.
If Bengals ownership really is strapped for cash to guarantee contracts, they need to find more ways to get cash this/next year....or consider selling the team to someone who can (which they won't do).
A restructure has nothing to do with guaranteed money. In Burrow's case the team had to place in escrow the guaranteed portion of his contract. That money is collecting interest. The team would need to convert his 2025 base into a bonus. If they do so, they can change his base to 1.1 million and use none of that bonus towards his 2025 cap.His base in 2025 is 25,400 so they could instantly add 24.3 million to the cap at a minimum if they did no other type of restructure. The bonus applies to the guaranteed portion, so no need to change the guarantee.
But, the team needs to have the cash/loan to pay the bonus. The team's equity would determine the amount a bank would loan them, the higher the equity, the more the team can leverage with a bank to borrow money. Interest rates are very high so not a great time to do loans, but the NFL teams have a huge advantage as banks gets a guarantee from the CBA towards these bonuses and salaies.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Larry Ogunjobi to the Bills.
Bills are definitely trying to put themselves in a postion to win it all in 2025. They are also leveraging a lot of future cap to do it. If they win it all, great move. If they do not, could cost them in future years.
Yes, I am an optmist, but also wish our team was more aggressive. Yesterday they add Larry and also Bosa. Is Bosa a great player still? If healthy, probably yes.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - RunKijanaRun - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:46 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It essentially turns a 1 KM walk into a 5 KM walk: something that is harder, but far from impossible.
IE, being overdramatic.
So then by calling me over-dramatic, you agree being dramatic is reasonable. And there’s a significant difference in choosing to do something that’s 5x harder if you can avoid it.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Ell Prez - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bills are definitely trying to put themselves in a postion to win it all in 2025. They are also leveraging a lot of future cap to do it. If they win it all, great move. If they do not, could cost them in future years.
Yes, I am an optmist, but also wish our team was more aggressive. Yesterday they add Larry and also Bosa. Is Bosa a great player still? If healthy, probably yes.
Cap is always going up. Look at what chiefs have done. Always restructuring. Who cares about 3 years down the road. All contracts in 3 years will look great compared to the cap and new deals being done in 2028.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 01:39 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Cap is always going up. Look at what chiefs have done. Always restructuring. Who cares about 3 years down the road. All contracts in 3 years will look great compared to the cap and new deals being done in 2028.
You are preaching to the choir. I have advocated for years for Bengals to be more creative.
Here is an example of Bill adding cap space. In this example, no bonus paid, just added voidable years (pushed cap into later years that will be dead money in later years).
This is what aggravates me, the excuse of having to pay cash to lower cap hit is simply not true.
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The Bills have restructured defensive tackle Ed Oliver's contract, per sources. The move saves just over $10M in cap space with void years added to the end of the deal as http://overthecap.com documented.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - WeezyBengal - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 11:39 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It's the new league year, so it affects cap space and the like: it ISN'T a big deal like he's being overdramatic about, but it does make the extensions and the like a bit trickier to complete, that's all.
It'd matter more if the Bengals were savy with how they structure their cap, but they aren't, so its a non issue.
RE: Happy Tampering Day - ochocincos - 03-12-2025
(03-12-2025, 12:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: A restructure has nothing to do with guaranteed money. In Burrow's case the team had to place in escrow the guaranteed portion of his contract. That money is collecting interest. The team would need to convert his 2025 base into a bonus. If they do so, they can change his base to 1.1 million and use none of that bonus towards his 2025 cap.His base in 2025 is 25,400 so they could instantly add 24.3 million to the cap at a minimum if they did no other type of restructure. The bonus applies to the guaranteed portion, so no need to change the guarantee.
But, the team needs to have the cash/loan to pay the bonus. The team's equity would determine the amount a bank would loan them, the higher the equity, the more the team can leverage with a bank to borrow money. Interest rates are very high so not a great time to do loans, but the NFL teams have a huge advantage as banks gets a guarantee from the CBA towards these bonuses and salaies.
That was exactly my point.
If they're going to restructure and convert more of the base salary to bonus, they will need to pay that out immediately upon restructure.