(11-11-2017, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do good: Top 1/3 of the league in passer rating, 2.5 TDs to every INT, hold your supporting cast accountable for their shortcomings. 

Josh McGown is doing good at NYJ, Kirk Cousins is doing good at Wash

(11-11-2017, 02:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Jets are 4-5 (3-5 before beating the Bills) and averaging 99 rushing yards per game.

The Redskins are 4-4 (3-4 before beating Seattle) and averaging 107 rushing yards per game.

The Bengals are 3-5 (3-4 before losing to the Jags) and averaging only 72 rushing yards per game.

So, despite the fact that they have better QB stats, better running games and better lines...they still only have one more win than the Bengals. 

(11-11-2017, 02:34 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe you missed what being a Bengal did to the previous QB, the Golden Boy, the human Juggs gun, the guy who took the league by storm and ended up refusing to play another down here.  There can't be any similarities at all. 

Tell you this right now--bring in another QB, spend a high pick on one, sit back, watch it all come apart for him too.   Maybe then you'll see a pattern.  Or will it take two more, five more, ten more?  This is where QB's go to get their asses kicked.  Sure, turn the page, bring in another one.  Give him a patchwork line and no running game and bad schemes and sit back and watch the deja vu unfold.

(11-11-2017, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who mentioned anything about wins; as I understand wins are a team effort? But let's point to something else that can attribute to wins. Defense:

Cincy is 6th in the NFL in YPG, Washington is 18th, NYJ is 24th.

We are 11th in points per game, NYJ is 17th and Wash is 24th.

So despite the fact that they have much worse defenses they still have one more win.

You can introduce stats all day if you want and I can easily counter because Andy is what he is. A mid-tier QB and currently performing much worse than the likes of McCown and Cousins in similar situations. Hell poor ole Jacoby Brissett is in his first year as a starter under much worse conditions and has a the same amount of wins and comparable passer rting to Dalton. 

(11-11-2017, 02:56 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: You are very focused on just the o Lind and sounds like you guts think just stick with Dalton,get a great o line and were going to be in there. But... he's showed the same stuff except 2015 being the outlier. I agree with you the Bengals organization let the o line go to crap for Palmer, the difference is he was a #1 pick and a lot more talented. Has Andy Dalton had a bad o line the whole time here? No . And they have tried to draft a lot of weapons for him. He's got a big weapon in green which accounts for something big that a lot of qbs don't have except Matt Ryan, that also factors into the equation. 

Also I also put coaching in there because they are responsible for trying new things with the o line and ownership too they are both one of the same,complacent . Two guys really stink the o line up and that's turnstile ced and blowdine . It's just when Dalton does have time ,he still has bad flaws which we could be better off. We can go max out the o line for the next year or two and I'm sure Dalton will have more excuses from his defenders,it's always going to be something. I can't stand watching him not give his receivers a chance at the ball atleast. This is year 7 foir gods sake and your vet qb does that. Is he a franchise qb ? Not in my eyes, might as well jump his salary while you can in my book. But Marvin don't have the balls. It's going to take a new coach to do that. The goal is to win a ring for once for this city and not lose soon as we get to the playoffs.

Here's another stat for the stat boys. At this point in time Andy Dalton and Trent dilfer have about the same amount of games played and the same amount of wins. Since everyone says Dalton all he does is win. Was Trent dilfer a good qb?put Trent dilfer on a different team and he doesn't have all them wins.

(11-11-2017, 02:56 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: You are very focused on just the o Line and sounds like you guys think just stick with Dalton,get a great o line and were going to be in there. But... he's showed the same stuff except 2015 being the outlier. I agree with you the Bengals organization let the o line go to crap for Palmer, the difference is he was a #1 pick and a lot more talented. Has Andy Dalton had a bad o line the whole time here? No . And they have tried to draft a lot of weapons for him. He's got a big weapon in green which accounts for something big that a lot of qbs don't have except Matt Ryan, that also factors into the equation. 

Also I also put coaching in there because they are responsible for trying new things with the o line and ownership too they are both one of the same,complacent . Two guys really stink the o line up and that's turnstile ced and blowdine . It's just when Dalton does have time ,he still has bad flaws which we could be better off. We can go max out the o line for the next year or two and I'm sure Dalton will have more excuses from his defenders,it's always going to be something. I can't stand watching him not give his receivers a chance at the ball atleast. This is year 7 for gods sake and your vet qb does that. Is he a franchise qb ? Not in my eyes, might as well jump his salary while you can in my book. But Marvin don't have the balls. It's going to take a new coach to do that. The goal is to win a ring for once for this city and not lose soon as we get to the playoffs.

Here's another stat for the stat boys. At this point in time Andy Dalton and Trent dilfer have about the same amount of games played and the same amount of wins. Since everyone says Dalton all he does is win. Was Trent dilfer a good qb?put Trent dilfer on a different team and he doesn't have all them wins.

(11-11-2017, 02:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McCown has 1.86 TD's to every INT, so he wouldn't meet your criteria.

Only 9 QB's meet your criteria this year. Only 5 of those have been sacked 20+ times. Here's the run-game rankings for those 5 QB's:

Alex Smith/Chiefs: 12th in yards - 3rd in yards/carry
Tom Brady/Patriots: 16th in yards - 21st in yards/carry
Carson Wentz/Eagles: 3rd in yards - 7th in yards/carry
Kirk Cousins/Redskins: 21st in yards - 22nd in yards/carry
Russell Wilson: 19th in yards - 23rd in yards/carry

Not only is Dalton getting sacked/pressured/hit at a higher rate than any of these guys, his run game is far worse. Only 8 teams are averaging less than 92.1 yards per game. We're at 72.3. It's the worst figure in team history. As is the 3.1 yards/carry. If you can find numerous examples of QB's meeting your own criteria in similar circumstances, I salute you.

(11-11-2017, 02:56 PM)McC Wrote: Still a man hears what he wants to hear

And disregards the rest…

(11-11-2017, 03:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose you lost me. 

(11-11-2017, 02:56 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: You are very focused on just the o Lind and sounds like you guts think just stick with Dalton,get a great o line and were going to be in there. 1. But... he's showed the same stuff except 2015 being the outlier. I agree with you the Bengals organization let the o line go to crap for Palmer, the difference is he was a #1 pick and a lot more talented. 2. Has Andy Dalton had a bad o line the whole time here? No . 3. And they have tried to draft a lot of weapons for him. He's got a big weapon in green which accounts for something big that a lot of qbs don't have except Matt Ryan, that also factors into the equation. 

Also I also put coaching in there because they are responsible for trying new things with the o line and ownership too they are both one of the same,complacent . Two guys really stink the o line up and that's turnstile ced and blowdine . It's just when Dalton does have time ,he still has bad flaws which we could be better off. We can go max out the o line for the next year or two and I'm sure Dalton will have more excuses from his defenders,it's always going to be something. 4. I can't stand watching him not give his receivers a chance at the ball atleast. This is year 7 foir gods sake and your vet qb does that. Is he a franchise qb ? Not in my eyes, might as well jump his salary while you can in my book. But Marvin don't have the balls. It's going to take a new coach to do that. The goal is to win a ring for once for this city and not lose soon as we get to the playoffs.

Here's another stat for the stat boys. At this point in time Andy Dalton and Trent dilfer have about the same amount of games played and the same amount of wins. Since everyone says Dalton all he does is win. Was Trent dilfer a good qb?put Trent dilfer on a different team and he doesn't have all them wins.

(11-11-2017, 03:06 PM)McC Wrote: It's not so much defending Dalton as defending the obvious truths which you seem so willing to ignore. 

When people are coming at a QB from every direction so often, do you think he will be able to just calmly stand there on the rare occasion he does have time and survey the field?  Let's see, AJ is triple covered and he's not open, he's not open, oops, here they come.  When they regularly are all over him, what does he expect will happen?  They're not here yet but they will be soon.

How does he get that thought out of his head?  If he doesn't even feel safe, how the **** can he feel confident?

Andy is not good under extreme pressure.  Everybody knows that.  That should have been known from day one.  Knowing this, what is of the utmost importance?  Protection.  If you know he needs protection and you let his line turn to complete shit, have you set him, and your entire offense, up to fail or succeed?

And the running game?  Enuff said.

He shouldn't be getting shit from people.  He should be getting a medal for courage and a very big apology.

But yeah, let's bring in the next victim and in three years or less, you'll be calling for his head too and still not seeing a pattern.

(11-11-2017, 03:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You may have left out Tyrod Taylor. So he, Kirk Cousins, Tom Brady, and Russell Wilson are in situations similar to Andy and meet the criteria (Career journeymen Josh McCown falls just short). I wonder how much Russell Wilson's 51 carries at 5.7 YPC aids the Seattle rushing numbers. I appreciate the salute on Veterans Day. 

(11-11-2017, 03:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Same stuff? He had 4300 yards and 35 TDs in 2013. 3700 yards and 31 TDs in 2012. 4200 yards and 22 TDs last year.

2. And he produced when the line was decent.

3. Key word being "tried". The only time Andy's weapons lived up to the hype was 2013 and 2015. Dalton broke all kinds of records those 2 years.

4. I assume you're talking about deep balls again. I already showed you that Dalton has fine stats on the deep ball. Sure "stats", but those completions, yards and TD's all happened in real life.

(11-11-2017, 03:19 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: No it's not just deep balls,even misses short throws ,too high ,or behind the receiver. 

(11-11-2017, 03:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Likewise. 

Tyrod Taylor didn't have a rating in the top 1/3rd of the league. 

(11-11-2017, 03:17 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Thats just the way it is he is the qb that dont show alot of talent ,hes mid tier at best talent wise. Go around to each team and they argue the qb if they arent doing good. I get your points about run game and o line play. Where I don't get your points is ,he doesn't always have  .5 seconds to throw. There's plenty of opportunities that I've seen where he just sails it. I already know a few things about him. He shows no leadership,no passion except 2015,he shows to be too inconsistent on accuracy ,he doest climb the pocket or maneuver with his feet in the pocket,he leaves the pocket when he doesn't have too. He puts his head down and surrenders to sacks. It's all on tape guys all you have to do to re evaluate the game is watch goodberry on twitter every week ,they desect the games for y'all to see what's going on.ige been following him and others for a few years and seen the flaws on tape. I've studied Dalton and heard everyone's opinions on him for 7 years. I was never a big fan of him from the beginning talent wise.the 2013 playoffs was very depressing to watch 4 straight turnovers by your golden boy.

(11-11-2017, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who mentioned anything about wins; as I understand wins are a team effort? But let's point to something else that can attribute to wins. Defense:

Cincy is 6th in the NFL in YPG, Washington is 18th, NYJ is 24th.

We are 11th in points per game, NYJ is 17th and Wash is 24th.

So despite the fact that they have much worse defenses they still have one more win.

You can introduce stats all day if you want and I can easily counter because Andy is what he is. A mid-tier QB and currently performing much worse than the likes of McCown and Cousins in similar situations. Hell poor ole Jacoby Brissett is in his first year as a starter under much worse conditions and has a the same amount of wins and comparable passer rting to Dalton. 

(11-11-2017, 03:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yes this is happening more frequently this year. I can't imagine why.

(11-11-2017, 03:13 PM)McC Wrote: Oh, I don't think so.