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+--- Thread: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... (/thread-15876.html)
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-08-2018
(05-07-2018, 02:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't see Price as raw. He started 55 straight games along the interior. He won the Rimington, so I'd say his transition to Center went over smoothly. Sure, Ragnow started 33 games at Center and Price started 14, but I wouldn't call Price raw.
Also, one thing I just noticed is that Ragnow is over 6'5". Almost 1.5 inches taller than Price. Isn't it better for Centers to be on the shorter side?
I just meant more raw than Ragnow who like you said started at Center many more games.
Good point on Ragnow's height, could hamper him a bit at Center as he is not the bowling ball type like Price is.
We all saw how Pocic had to be moved to Guard cause he is really tall.
(05-08-2018, 05:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ole? Just because I am staring down the barrel of 50 doesn't make me "ole", but I think you meant "ol" anyways.
Sorry man, it was more of me holding you in high regard then calling you an old dude lol
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - SHRacerX - 05-09-2018
(05-08-2018, 09:35 AM)Synric Wrote: Being to tall for a center was Ragnow's biggest knock.
All 3 of the top Centers were worth a top 40 pick but they each had an issue.
James Daniels is probably going to take a year but he's young and has the highest ceiling. Billy Price can start right away, is technically sound, and mean but he's maxed out and has very short arms.
Before anyone reads this and freaks out, Price has 32" arms and Zack Martin, who posted very similar numbers (although not quite as strong or fast as Price) has 32 7/8" arms, and their wingspans (which takes chest width in to account) are withing 1." of each others.
Price is the first interior lineman we have drafted in recent years where I don't remember seeing any deficiencies in his "flexibility" or "not a natural bender". whereas Price has outstanding bend and hip flexibility.
I am so excited at the changes at LT, C, and may the best man win at RG (Westerman) and RT (No idea, but I like the idea of Ced, Fish, and Hart all fighting for it, because they probably know who ever wins the position will stay there.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Synric - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 08:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Before anyone reads this and freaks out, Price has 32" arms and Zack Martin, who posted very similar numbers (although not quite as strong or fast as Price) has 32 7/8" arms, and their wingspans (which takes chest width in to account) are withing 1." of each others.
Which does not change the fact Price will have to deal with that as an issue his entire career. I'm not saying he will bust because of it but he will have to work harder against guys with longer arms. Just like Ragnow will always have an issue with shorter fast guys and leverage and James Daniels will have issues with the larger nose tackles (until he hads some anchor).
It is what it is.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - jj22 - 05-09-2018
(05-07-2018, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This is just the DeCastro/Zeitler thread all over again. Back then, lot's of people were hand wringing and whining about not getting DeCastro, only to have him get injured while Zeitler started day 1..... Billy Price has proven he is durable with 55 starts at OSU....
This isn't helpful to those feeling like we got the better Center, as DeCastro has had the far better career then Zeitler who is slightly overrated. Bengals made a mistake passing on DeCastro and handing him to the Steelers.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Sled21 - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 09:34 AM)jj22 Wrote: This isn't helpful to those feeling like we got the better Center, as DeCastro has had the far better career then Zeitler who is slightly overrated. Bengals made a mistake passing on DeCastro and handing him to the Steelers.
I still don't see DeCastro as a better player than Zeit. DeCastrated just benefits from playing on a better line and not having Pouncey instead of Bodine beside him....
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - jj22 - 05-09-2018
I have to disagree. The perennial All Pro Decastro is a far better Guard than the never even made the probowl Zeitler. Even with Pouncey out hurt he dominated.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Nicomo Cosca - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 11:33 AM)jj22 Wrote: I have to disagree. The perennial All Pro Decastro is a far better Guard than the never even made the probowl Zeitler. Even with Pouncey out hurt he dominated.
Yeah, I’d take Decastro over Zeitler any day.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 10:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I still don't see DeCastro as a better player than Zeit. DeCastrated just benefits from playing on a better line and not having Pouncey instead of Bodine beside him....
Regardless whether DeCastro is better than Zeitler or not, Bengals had the opportunity to take DeCastro and chose to trade back. They didn't have that option with Ragnow, so that's a slightly different scenario than the one discussed in this thread.
I don't think DeCastro was their guy at RG back in the 2012 draft whereas I think Ragnow was their preference at C for this draft.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Shake n Blake - 05-09-2018
Is that why people are flustered? They think Ragnow = Decastro and Price = Zeitler?
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - sandwedge - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 09:10 AM)Synric Wrote: Which does not change the fact Price will have to deal with that as an issue his entire career. I'm not saying he will bust because of it but he will have to work harder against guys with longer arms. Just like Ragnow will always have an issue with shorter fast guys and leverage and James Daniels will have issues with the larger nose tackles (until he hads some anchor).
It is what it is.
I could see where longer arms helps tackles but I don't see where longer arms helps a center? Never been a lineman so I honestly don't understand that. I would think inside, phone booth, where there is alot of hand fighting and body on body, the longer arms is pretty much neutralized?
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - XenoMorph - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 11:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Is that why people are flustered? They think Ragnow = Decastro and Price = Zeitler?
people are trying to play captain hinesight on something they don't even know is true...
Ragnow might have been the Mocked pick but the bengals sounded like they wanted price all along.
This thread is pointless. As it doesn't matter you cant go back and change it.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-09-2018
(05-09-2018, 12:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: people are trying to play captain hinesight on something they don't even know is true...
Ragnow might have been the Mocked pick but the bengals sounded like they wanted price all along.
This thread is pointless. As it doesn't matter you cant go back and change it.
To be fair, it wouldn't make sense for the Bengals to NOT act like Price was the pick all along. At the end of the day he's a Bengal.
But the thread itself isn't pointless, as it's supposed to be about Bengals draft approach of "stay put and see who is available" vs "trade up some to get your guy". You're right that we can't 100% know for sure if Ragnow was "the guy" but it sure felt like it.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Bengal Dude - 05-10-2018
(05-09-2018, 12:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: people are trying to play captain hinesight on something they don't even know is true...
Ragnow might have been the Mocked pick but the bengals sounded like they wanted price all along.
This thread is pointless. As it doesn't matter you cant go back and change it.
LOL. Lap has said that Ragnow was the #1 center on their board. They just had Price rated close to him. Price was the backup option. It's okay to admit.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - dnkw - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 01:03 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: LOL. Lap has said that Ragnow was the #1 center on their board. They just had Price rated close to him. Price was the backup option. It's okay to admit.
Huh, did he actually say he was #1 on their board?
I thought he said Ragnow was his own personal preference (and not by much). Would be interested to see/hear that if you have a source. Thank you.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 01:03 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: LOL. Lap has said that Ragnow was the #1 center on their board. They just had Price rated close to him. Price was the backup option. It's okay to admit.
Waiting for someone to say, "Well yea, they just told Lap that so they would get someone to take Ragnow before them so their REAL guy Price was still there! It was all a smokescreen!"......
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 09:20 AM)dnkw Wrote: Huh, did he actually say he was #1 on their board?
I thought he said Ragnow was his own personal preference (and not by much). Would be interested to see/hear that if you have a source. Thank you.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/24/17277034/dave-lapham-predicts-bengals-will-draft-frank-ragnow-in-round-1
Quote:“My mindset would be, don’t complicate it, stay with the plan, go take the center and I think they’d be happy, it’s almost a toss up between Billy Price and Frank Ragnow. When I do research, deep dive in the center position and talk to guys I can trust around the league, it’s very, very close but some people have Frank Ragnow ahead by a substantial margin of Billy Price. I think they might go Frank Ragnow, and I would. In my evaluation of tape I would go with Frank Ragnow just a bit above Billy Price. I would not be offended whatsoever if Billy Price is the guy they take but I’m leaning more toward Frank Ragnow,” Lapham said.
Ragnow essentially was who Lapham would have gone with and believed most people had him ahead of Price. However, he thought it was very close for the Bengals between the two.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - XenoMorph - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 01:03 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: LOL. Lap has said that Ragnow was the #1 center on their board. They just had Price rated close to him. Price was the backup option. It's okay to admit.
how can you admit what you don't know.
Lap said Ragnow was #1 on his board.
you guys are speculating... on something that DOESNT matter. lol
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Sled21 - 05-10-2018
And with a Freudian slip, we all now know where Lapham goes to get his information.....
Quote:“If he sled I don’t think they can pass up on McGlinchey, but I don’t think he’s going to slide,” Lapham said.Actually, since the 3 centers were all rated so closely, I could very well see the coaching staff in Cincy giving the edge to Price simply because he's used to playing in Ohio weather....
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - 3wt - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 12:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And with a Freudian slip, we all now know where Lapham goes to get his information.....
Actually, since the 3 centers were all rated so closely, I could very well see the coaching staff in Cincy giving the edge to Price simply because he's used to playing in Ohio weather....
What do we need to get on your good side?
And I don't think anyone would have had anyone but Ragnow as the top rated center. The guy is a beast, has long arms, is a good run blocker and didn't give up a sack for his entire SEC career.
That being said I think we got a really good center who is smart, intense, strong, a pretty good pass protector and a beast in the running game. With as many needs as we had it would not have been worth trading up to get him.
Of course if Walton doesn't pan out...
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - dnkw - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 12:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And with a Freudian slip, we all now know where Lapham goes to get his information.....
Actually, since the 3 centers were all rated so closely, I could very well see the coaching staff in Cincy giving the edge to Price simply because he's used to playing in Ohio weather....
TBH I'm looking forward to seeing what Price can do - as Pollack said in his interview, the one word he'd use to describe Price is 'Anchor' - how long since we've had one of those at center (and imagine the positive knock on effect for the rest of the line).