(03-21-2020, 05:02 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: The year that Dennard fell, people were saying that he was a top 10 pick and that there was no way in hell that he'd ever fall to a playoff team.  Pre-draft wisdom doesn't always hold true.  Don't be shocked if or when one of the "top players" makes it to 33; or if they keep falling.

(03-20-2020, 03:32 PM)Okeana Wrote: 1.  Patrick Queen
2.  Denzel Mims
3.  Kenneth Murray
4.  Zach Baun
5.  Kyle Dugger
6.  Antoine Winfield jr.
7.  Lloyd Cushenberry
8.  John Simpson
9.  Ross Blacklock
10.  Chase Claypool


So these are guys who I feel may be available within our range depending on how the draft falls,  how does your big board look for 33.  Please avoid picking people considered top 15 picks lmao.

(04-04-2020, 08:32 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It seems that every year one or two players fall that fans and TV analysts think will go high. There likely will be a surprise player available to us. The #33 pick should be the best player available.

 

(04-03-2020, 11:28 AM)Synric Wrote: I'm not as high on the big 3 linebackers like everyone else.

Zack Baun is an edge defender that wants to switch to stack linebacker.

Patrick Queen is a solid coverage linebacker but is slow to read the run and his lack of length shows up in missed tackles in space.

Kenneth Murray is out of control he is all athleticism. Bad angles poor tackling and we have no idea what he will look like in coverage because Oklahoma rarely asked him to do it.

I think the guy that is criminally underrated is Troy Dye. We are talking about one of the better linebackers over the last 3 seasons. He has been a top coverage linebackers in college football, very good as a blitzer, and a tackling machine. His 2019 tape isn't as good as the previous two years is why he's falling but he also was playing with a broken thumb in a clubbed glove and a partially torn meniscus even then he still graded out as PFFs second highest linebacker 90.5.

(04-04-2020, 08:32 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It seems that every year one or two players fall that fans and TV analysts think will go high. There likely will be a surprise player available to us. The #33 pick should be the best player available.

 

(04-04-2020, 08:32 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It seems that every year one or two players fall that fans and TV analysts think will go high. There likely will be a surprise player available to us. The #33 pick should be the best player available.

 

(04-04-2020, 10:19 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: I think your assessment of other linebackers is too critical.

1.) We are transitioning to a hybrid 3-4 and need a Sam. Either Sam Hubbard or Dunlap will take the second DE (Reader - NT, Atkins - DE) - probably Dunlap. With Hubbard outside, we have Bynes and Pratt (Pratt will most likely be the hybrid backer considering he transitioned to LB from safety) at MLB, and nothing else unless you want to start Lawson in the base.
2.) In nickel packages, Lawson will most likely be taken off the field allowing Hubbard to blitz and Bynes and Pratt to play coverage.
3.) Lawson is supposedly a liability in the run, so why would he even be playing in the base.
4.) Bynes is supposedly good in the run but not good in coverage.
5.) So our weaknesses are MLB in coverage and OLB against the run.

I would be happy if the Bengals chose Dye, but I don't think his film is as good as you remember - he is athletic and looks like a decent MLB but he does allow players to get open in coverage. I would rather pick him in the third.

Bynes is old - Queen would probably be an upgrade in the long run but is not an immediate need.

Murray plays the same position as Pratt.

Baun would be a better pick considering he is tailor made for a 3-4 sam and looks decent enough to play coverage in the NFL to keep him in the nickel while taking Bynes out.  I see him as a more immediate need and I would not say we would be overreaching if he was still there whereas Dye would be a reach, imo. Queen shows more upside and would fit a need that will be an issue in one or two years. It might be smart to trade Lawson.

(04-04-2020, 11:21 PM)McC Wrote: Yep.  That's exactly what you're looking for.   And if somehow that doesn't happen, you're looking for the intersection of need and talent.  If that somehow doesn't happen, that's when you have a bidding war for a trade.

They're in the catbird seat.

(04-05-2020, 12:03 AM)Synric Wrote: 34 defense is a base alignment.

Let me ask you this... the most common alightment for a 34 defense is actually a 335 because offenses run 11 personnel over 60%(3WR 1 TE 1 RB). Which Linebacker stands up on the LoS Pratt Bynes or Baun? Which one is the coverage linebacker that lines up over the TE? 

Fact is Carlos Dunlap and Sam Hubbard both played the spot you are recommending Zack Baun and at a high level. The Bengals need a ILB that fits that profile are Dye, Queen, Gay, and Brooks.

(04-02-2020, 10:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: I wouldn't say it's a high passer rating against him, but it's not amazing, either.

Thing is, looking through four of his game films, he pretty much just drops into a deep zone in coverage, which explains the high completion %.  And he's bad at it.  He's constantly late in reacting to crossers and out routes.  He has a rep against Texas where the outside receiver clears out up the sideline and the inside receiver gets up to his outside shoulder and runs an out and he doesn't even react.  He's just standing there staring in the backfield as the ball comes out for an easy completion.  It's a consistent pattern in both the run and pass game.  He gets complete tunnel vision staring in the backfield and is totally oblivious to everything going on around him.  He does a good job covering the HB flare, but that's about it.  QB's will be able to freeze him their eyes and Roethlisberger would destroy him with that pump fake of his.  

He's a very disruptive pass rusher, but he has at least one botched run fit that goes for a huge gain in each of the films I watched.  He's the type of player that if you just watch his highlights, you'd think he's amazing, but he blows more plays than he makes.  There are times he seems instinctive, but with the blown fits and hesitation in zone, it seems more like he's just guessing than reading and reacting.  

(04-03-2020, 07:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Study his tape," McShay said. "He’s the best player on the field on the defensive side for LSU just about every single down. Especially late in the year when they really needed him. I would take him late in the first (round) and be totally fine sleeping that night. If I got him early in the second, I would think it’s a steal. He’s going to start right away."




McShay also noted that if Queen gets drafted to a team with a skilled defensive line, it will only help to amplify his skill set.
"If you do things properly upfront, it’s going to allow him to run and chase and pursue, which he does best," McShay said.

(04-03-2020, 07:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Couple more guys that know a bit about player evaluation:

NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein: While other Tigers received more attention, Queen has some of the most eye-opening tape of the bunch. He plays fast, physical and with impressive field confidence for a one-year starter. His ability to diagnose and flow are both very rapid, and he operates with excellent body control and balance to gobble up runners as an open-field tackler. His inexperience will show itself in taking on blocks and finding optimal pursuit angles, but that will get cleaned up in time. Queen is next up from LSU's linebacker factory, possessing the same three-down ability to hunt, cover and tackle as those before him. He's an early starter with a sky-high ceiling.

ESPN's Mel Kiper: The more I watched LSU's defense last season, the more I liked Queen. He just constantly showed up on the film, making sure tackles and penetrating into the backfield. And he was great in the Tigers' two College Football Playoff games, with four tackles for loss and 16 total tackles. Queen is a run-and-hit middle linebacker who has some coverage skills, though he can still improve there. He'll be an instant starter as a rookie.

(04-03-2020, 10:11 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: The second round of this draft is going to be fascinating to watch as a bengals fan.  Let’s assume for a moment that players I list are available:
Josh Jones or comparable ot
Queen or Murray
Mims or similarly graded wr
Ruiz

It seems to me that generally the bengals have opted for skill positions with their top picks and have generally pushed down other areas.  I don’t know if that is a Mike brown thing or was a Marvin thing.

If it’s more of a Mike brown thing I would expect the ot or wr to be taken

(04-03-2020, 11:28 AM)Synric Wrote: I'm not as high on the big 3 linebackers like everyone else.

Zack Baun is an edge defender that wants to switch to stack linebacker.

Patrick Queen is a solid coverage linebacker but is slow to read the run and his lack of length shows up in missed tackles in space.

Kenneth Murray is out of control he is all athleticism. Bad angles poor tackling and we have no idea what he will look like in coverage because Oklahoma rarely asked him to do it.

I think the guy that is criminally underrated is Troy Dye. We are talking about one of the better linebackers over the last 3 seasons. He has been a top coverage linebackers in college football, very good as a blitzer, and a tackling machine. His 2019 tape isn't as good as the previous two years is why he's falling but he also was playing with a broken thumb in a clubbed glove and a partially torn meniscus even then he still graded out as PFFs second highest linebacker 90.5.

(04-07-2020, 08:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is where we should be focusing our efforts....analyzing what will most likely be the top of the day 3 LBs.  I seriously doubt Queen is still there and Murray doesn't fit their need.  I am betting they slide in Rd 2 and get offensive line help or WR.  It would have to be a really highly ranked WR like Mims or HIggins, but I think they would more likely look for a top tackle prospect that might be able to play guard and get the WR in Rd 3...hoping a guy like Bryan Edwards or Chase Claypool is still there.  

I think unless it is a guy like Queen, the Bengals will go for day 3 LBs like Troy Dye, Akeem Davis-Gaiter, Willie Gay, David Woodward, Jacob Phillips (can't believe he is being projected as a day 3 by some), and two guys I really like:  Logan Wilson and Evan Weaver.  I could see the Bengals adding someone like Akeem Davis-Gaither with a late3 rd round pick gained from sliding in rd 2, and then getting a guy like Logan Wilson in the top of Rd 4.  

(04-07-2020, 11:09 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I agree. I think they have to trade down this year in round 2 and possibly 4. The advantage they get from coaching the Senior Bowl is magnified 10x over other years with the limited access teams have.  Honestly, the more picks in rounds 3-5 the better.

With the draft being online, I think we are going to be significantly fewer trades in general. And I think when teams regroup after days 1 & 2, they are going to overpay to trade up. The trade value charts might be useless at those spots this year. It seems this offseason might be the perfect storm for the Bengals.

Regarding LB and OL, some NFL network guys were tweeting yesterday that Isaiah Wilson & Willie Gay are shooting up draft boards - Wilson could be late 1st round & Gay in the high-mid 2nd. I've seen both of those players mocked to Cincy. I wonder if either of those guys would be options in round 2 now. 

(04-07-2020, 11:09 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I agree. I think they have to trade down this year in round 2 and possibly 4. The advantage they get from coaching the Senior Bowl is magnified 10x over other years with the limited access teams have.  Honestly, the more picks in rounds 3-5 the better.

With the draft being online, I think we are going to be significantly fewer trades in general. And I think when teams regroup after days 1 & 2, they are going to overpay to trade up. The trade value charts might be useless at those spots this year. It seems this offseason might be the perfect storm for the Bengals.

Regarding LB and OL, some NFL network guys were tweeting yesterday that Isaiah Wilson & Willie Gay are shooting up draft boards - Wilson could be late 1st round & Gay in the high-mid 2nd. I've seen both of those players mocked to Cincy. I wonder if either of those guys would be options in round 2 now.