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RE: WR trio - jason - 05-06-2021
(05-06-2021, 11:06 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I think that it's a bi-product of the hype about him being "generational" and "potential HOF" and all of that. The allure, the fantasy, was a return to some of the best teams that had the best relative OL play when compared to not so good seasons. If you bought into the hype, yeah I guess I could see how that would stick in your craw. The Bengals FO obviously didn't. Sewell's 40 time and broad jump were great - other measurables and level of competition not so much. Chase had the most productive college season of all time(at the time) when he played with Burrow. His workout was off the charts. His opt out time was spent training like a maniac and proving that he can handle a pro-style workload.
Even if Sewell was "your guy", it does seem a bit silly to not see the other side. Maybe it was a bit of a stretch to envision a 20 year old rookie coming in from the PAC-12, playing out of his mind at guard, seamlessly transitioning back to tackle at just the right time, and expecting it to go off without a hitch. Maybe the talk of Sewell at 2, Sewell at 4, Sewell the stonewaller HOF OG/OT who will never allow a sack stuff was a bit much. I think that it's getting kind of silly at this point. If the OL is a clunker again, well that'll stink, but at least they have an elite WR and may change their processes if the O continues to be hamstrung.
Agreed... I think Burrow's ACL injury played a major role in all of this too. Some of us are acting like we're trotting out the same line as we had opening day of 2020 too... We're not. They've addressed the issue. It might not be to everyone's liking, but they've upgraded. The bottom line is our offense should do damage this season, and that's a reason to be excited.
RE: WR trio - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 05-07-2021
(05-06-2021, 03:50 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: To the running game comment.
How often did the Bengals run last season prior to Burrow going down versus passing.
How often did they line up empty set with a RB either motioning out or not being there?
The Bengals offense was predictable due to play calling and formation. If you want to run empty sets you can't do it with an average to below average line.
Pre draft all I heard on here was Boyd and Higgins can't get separation. So they draft Chase to sell jerseys and excite half the fanbase. Now I'm to believe that suddenly Boyd and Higgins will get separation?
You said this group of receivers can do it all? Funny, before the draft this WR Corp was terrible. Couldn't go deep, couldn't get separation but now all the sudden one guy and all that is fixed? Either this group was fine and didn't need to burn a premium pick or people are overselling the groups talent.
One guy does completely change the WR corp because it changes how the opposition defend against them.
If Chase draws their no1. CB, the knock-on effect is likely to be a better match-up than if Higgins is going against their CB1 and Boyd their CB2. Playing against lesser CBs makes it easier to get separation.
If Chase draws the safety in double coverage that stops them doubling someone else, which makes it easier for that receiver to get separation.
RE: WR trio - Bengalitis - 05-07-2021
Higgins has proven he can produce in the NFL... Chase not yet. He looked flashy on draft day, hope he doesn't turn into a cancerous Diva. Me, me, me, me!
RE: WR trio - Sled21 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 08:50 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Higgins has proven he can produce in the NFL... Chase not yet. He looked flashy on draft day, hope he doesn't turn into a cancerous Diva. Me, me, me, me!
He's not an unknown.... Burrow has been on teams with him before. If he was a diva, I doubt Burrow would have pushed to have him here, and they would not have been putting in all that extra work together.
RE: WR trio - Bengalitis - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 08:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He's not an unknown.... Burrow has been on teams with him before. If he was a diva, I doubt Burrow would have pushed to have him here, and they would not have been putting in all that extra work together.
I hope so... last thing I would hate would be chaos in our receiving corps that may arise from any receiver "not getting the ball" etc.
I also hope it doesnt become an Andy to AJ love affair and more of a Brady-spreadball. Helps to keep opposing Ds guessing.
RE: WR trio - Nicomo Cosca - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 09:45 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: I hope so... last thing I would hate would be chaos in our receiving corps that may arise from any receiver "not getting the ball" etc.
I also hope it doesnt become an Andy to AJ love affair and more of a Brady-spreadball. Helps to keep opposing Ds guessing.
Burrow spread the ball around plenty at LSU. Chase was his big play guy, but Jefferson actually had more receptions in 2019. Even Marshall had double digit TD’s that year. I’m not worried at all about Burrow getting too locked in on Chase, or becoming a one read QB.
RE: WR trio - Bengalitis - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 10:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow spread the ball around plenty at LSU. Chase was his big play guy, but Jefferson actually had more receptions in 2019. Even Marshall had double digit TD’s that year. I’m not worried at all about Burrow getting too locked in on Chase, or becoming a one read QB.
That's reassuring.
RE: WR trio - Sled21 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 10:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow spread the ball around plenty at LSU. Chase was his big play guy, but Jefferson actually had more receptions in 2019. Even Marshall had double digit TD’s that year. I’m not worried at all about Burrow getting too locked in on Chase, or becoming a one read QB.
Yep, I think Burrow will have no problem finding the open receiver. So then it becomes a competition between the receivers to see who can get open first. Somebody is going to have the #3 DB trying to cover them and will eat. If they drop more in coverage, Mixon/Perine will run it down their throats. Win. Personally, I think the only thing that can derail this offense would be injuries.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 07:43 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: One guy does completely change the WR corp because it changes how the opposition defend against them.
If Chase draws their no1. CB, the knock-on effect is likely to be a better match-up than if Higgins is going against their CB1 and Boyd their CB2. Playing against lesser CBs makes it easier to get separation.
If Chase draws the safety in double coverage that stops them doubling someone else, which makes it easier for that receiver to get separation.
I understand that but A.J. Green was pulling the number 1 corner last year and getting double coverage.... so Higgins and Boyd will see no change from last season in their coverage.
I'm not knocking Boyd or Higgins. I actually think both of them are undervalued by most fans here. I simply enjoy pointing out that we had to draft Chase since the WR room was just so bad (pre-draft ).... but now... it's magically all better. It wasn't a need, it was a pick to distract the casual fan from the team not being competitive, Taylor still being the coach, the Brown family still doing Brown family things. But, it's all good. At least the Bengals will score points right.
RE: WR trio - impactplaya - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I understand that but A.J. Green was pulling the number 1 corner last year and getting double coverage.... so Higgins and Boyd will see no change from last season in their coverage.More than the Detroit Lions
I'm not knocking Boyd or Higgins. I actually think both of them are undervalued by most fans here. I simply enjoy pointing out that we had to draft Chase since the WR room was just so bad (pre-draft ).... but now... it's magically all better. It wasn't a need, it was a pick to distract the casual fan from the team not being competitive, Taylor still being the coach, the Brown family still doing Brown family things. But, it's all good. At least the Bengals will score points right.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:31 PM)impactplaya Wrote: More than the Detroit Lions
And that is the standard??
Jesus, that is pathetic.
When this team makes moves like Kansas City, New England, New Orleans, Green Bay, or.. maybe even like Baltimore and Pitt then come talk...
When you are okay with mediocrity, that's just sad...
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:31 PM)impactplaya Wrote: More than the Detroit Lions
Just a fun follow up.
If this was supposed to be a cute shot about the Sewell v Chase debate, you have missed the point totally.
This isn't about Sewell. This is about ignoring the OL for too long. Sewell, Slater, trade down and take Darrisaw or Vera-Tucker. All viable options.
Or
If you stay and take Chase at 5 you have to commit to the line in a big way elsewhere. Be it FA or trades. I get it, you think Reiff is enough and drafting Carman is enough. However, it isn't.
Reiff is a one year rental. An upgrade over Hart but still not a long term solution.
Spain, solid but certainly replacable. He was just sitting around waiting in FA, not in high demand.
XSF, can't stay healthy. So... can't be counted on.
Jonah, see above. This guy can't stay on the field so you can't count on him.
Hopkins, coming off a torn ACL.
Now you have Carman, and if he transitions the way he should you have a G spot fixed. I'll give you Jonah and some how in year 3 he finally stays healthy. So you have a LT. Leaves 3 spots that can be upgraded. If Chase was the plan at 5, then they needed to be more aggressive in FA and solidify the line beyond this season. Burrow can't take the hits he took last season again, or he will not last in the league.
And before you or anyone else says "But we took the long-term answer in round 4 at tackle." Last round 4 OL that was the "Long-term" answer was Michael Jordan. So, not sold on Smith. Plus, it's just a a simple look at stats. Every round you wait in the draft, there is fewer and fewer long term-starters. So again, my complaint isn't against Chase, it is against not doing enough to fix the worst line in the NFL, and having a long-term vision. If they were 100% in on Chase, then spend the money and get Trent Williams in here, or Thuney or both... but put long term answers on that line and then go take your WR.
And yes, I know people will be like but Turner is gone and Pollack is back. Sure, he is a clear upgrade over Turner, but he had Price before and Price still sucked. He can't work miracles... he does need talent and they just aren't giving him enough to work with.
Look at Baltimore who beat the Bengals twice. Strong line, great QB, good running game. Their number one WR is Hollywood Brown who would be the 3rd option in Cincinnati. The Bengals have a back in Mixon who can dominate a game. They have their guy in Burrow. They just need to commit to building a line and as I said earlier, if they wanted Chase then that's fine but damn it you have to go out there and do more then a one-year rental to upgrade the line. That is why I'm just frustrated and over it. The Bengals aren't trying to be a Championship team, they just do enough to keep the fans excited.
RE: WR trio - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I understand that but A.J. Green was pulling the number 1 corner last year and getting double coverage.... so Higgins and Boyd will see no change from last season in their coverage.
I'm not knocking Boyd or Higgins. I actually think both of them are undervalued by most fans here. I simply enjoy pointing out that we had to draft Chase since the WR room was just so bad (pre-draft ).... but now... it's magically all better. It wasn't a need, it was a pick to distract the casual fan from the team not being competitive, Taylor still being the coach, the Brown family still doing Brown family things. But, it's all good. At least the Bengals will score points right.
If the Bengals just wanted to make fans happy they'd have drafted Sewell.
The casual fan hasn't kept up with how the NFL has changed: they just assume it is the same game they grew up with. The casual fan thinks nothing has changed as Taylor is still the coach, the Brown family still doing Brown family things and that the only thing that matters in the draft was drafting Sewell in the first round. If you'd asked any casual fan what was the Bengals' main need was to a man they'd have answered O-line. They probably wouldn't have distinguished between guard and tackle, they just knew the Bengals needed to get better up front. They probably wouldn't have thought that a WR was required because Higgins and Boyd are good right?
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-07-2021
(05-06-2021, 06:56 PM)jason Wrote: Somebody help me...
Has there been another year, where so many people wouldn't let go of the guy they wanted the Bengals to draft? Lord have mercy... I wanted Kyle Pitts, but **** him since he's in Atlanta. I wanted Chase over Sewell too, but I'da been ok with him. I'd have preferred Slater if they were gonna go T in the first. I guess it's just the burning feeling I have that Penei Sewell is fid'na find out he's not in the Pac 12 anymore. Maybe he turns out to be super awesome, but I just think Chase and Pitts are surer things than Penei, and we can't miss on a top 5 pick. Drafting for need is a sure fire way to build a sub par roster.
I sure wouldn't of been crying if we took Sewell...
But if the Draft fell the same way without taking a Receiver somewhat of Chase's ability I think we would be in trouble.
(05-06-2021, 07:35 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The thing here being missed is it affects how the defense plays against our team, which to some, means Higgins & Boyd aren't good players.
They are good/great players but adding that 3rd piece that brings downfield threat(not to mention QB chemistry/timing)that AJ Green wasn't bringing is huge.
If people want to get hurt about it take it more as a slam on AJ Green. A complete shell of his former self.
Even as an old vet he was supposed to fill that role and succeed in 2020.
He was awful and did not. He might have drawn some extra attention but what does that mean going into 2021 being refocused on Higgins & Boyd without it?
Not good.
No doubt BengalsRocker.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 02:33 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: If the Bengals just wanted to make fans happy they'd have drafted Sewell.
The casual fan hasn't kept up with how the NFL has changed: they just assume it is the same game they grew up with. The casual fan thinks nothing has changed as Taylor is still the coach, the Brown family still doing Brown family things and that the only thing that matters in the draft was drafting Sewell in the first round. If you'd asked any casual fan what was the Bengals' main need was to a man they'd have answered O-line. They probably wouldn't have distinguished between guard and tackle, they just knew the Bengals needed to get better up front. They probably wouldn't have thought that a WR was required because Higgins and Boyd are good right?
Every poll showed more fans voting Chase then Sewell....so that is false.
Casual fans? Really dude, sure the league is more pass happy then ever before but the rules have made it that way. Now, again no where did I saw don't draft Chase. I simply stated if you are going to draft Chase and that is your target then you have to commit somewhere else to fixing what was the worst line in the league.
Difference between tackle and guard.... okay try this one on... read where I literally explained that the team had issues at all 5 spots. LT can't stay healthy. LG is Spain who can be upgraded or XSF who can't stay healthy, C is coming off an ACL, RG is Carman who should be good but we have to wait and see since he is a draft pick, and then RT is a one year rental not a long term solution.
You responded with something that is just your biased opinion on people who view the game differently then you and didn't bother to read anything that was actually written. Instead you did what several other Pro-Chase people have been doing which is try to talk down to people and act like you know more then anyone else. Well, if you actually knew more then anyone else you'd be getting paid for your opinion not debating on a message board. And no matter how much the game changes, one thing remains the same. The teams with the best DL's and OLs go the furthest. If drafting talented WR's was all that matter the Raiders and Lions would have multiple titles by now.
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:16 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Every poll showed more fans voting Chase then Sewell....so that is false.
No, I don't think so, I voted for Sewell in the big thread and I believe Sewell had many more votes than Chase.
Maybe you are talking about the poll on who we thought we would take?
If so, yeah I think Chase might of won that one.
I wanted Pitts the most though of course.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No, I don't think so, I voted for Sewell in the big thread and I believe Sewell had many more votes than Chase.
Maybe you are talking about the poll on who we thought we would take?
If so, yeah I think Chase might of won that one.
I wanted Pitts the most though of course.
I was talking about the Twitter ones. On here it leaned Sewell but I never saw any on Twitter in the last few weeks that leaned Sewell.
And as much as I like the board, I think the Bengals themselves are more likely to see the Twitter polls from Lance and Mo that tagged them then they are too find the polls here lol.
RE: WR trio - ochocincos - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 08:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He's not an unknown.... Burrow has been on teams with him before. If he was a diva, I doubt Burrow would have pushed to have him here, and they would not have been putting in all that extra work together.
You can still be a diva and people may still be willing to work with you.
Remember how Palmer lobbied for T.O. even though everyone knew T.O. was one of the biggest diva WRs in NFL history?
RE: WR trio - Sled21 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You can still be a diva and people may still be willing to work with you.
Remember how Palmer lobbied for T.O. even though everyone knew T.O. was one of the biggest diva WRs in NFL history?
People have to keep going back to T.O. That's ancient history. There is nothing in Ja'Marr Chase's history that suggests even a hint of diva. His own dad said he gets on him for setting trophies and pictures out. Let's give the kid a break and let him catch a pass before we label him the re-incarnation of Owens.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You can still be a diva and people may still be willing to work with you.
Remember how Palmer lobbied for T.O. even though everyone knew T.O. was one of the biggest diva WRs in NFL history?
Yup.
We have no idea the work ethic or style of any of these players as they transition from college to the Pros.
Hell a few years ago when JuJu TikTok came into the pro game there was no signs of diva actions. He was a hard working guy and I remember people on the board being interested in drafting him.
Fame and money do weird things to people. Some people can handle it, others can't. There is no telling what anyone will do until we see how they pan out.
I will say the Bengals have been lucky in terms of the diva WRs in the past. Green certainly wasn't one. Chad was more of a clown then a diva. Even Pickens was more just upset with the team then a real diva.