(11-01-2017, 10:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Except that all those 'excuses' are also an unfortunate reality. As I said, Andy certainly has his share of blame in those games, but the fact is that the entire team and coaching staff shit their collective pants as well. 

You're certainly entitled to whatever opinion you want to have of Andy brother, but you can't just ignore facts like they didn't happen, as far as the playoff games go.

(11-01-2017, 10:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Because you're intentionally cryptic with your points? Kinda leads to people assuming what you're driving at, because people don't have the patience to deal with that crap.

2. That's why I followed with team attempts per sack. Kinda takes the whole "but multiple QB's" out of the equation. 

3. Only if you're dense or being intentionally obtuse. See #2...I just didn't feel like doing that math for 32 teams over a 12 year span. That would've required crunching the numbers of 384 teams, essentially. If you think I'm wrong about the 5 years I listed, go ahead and crunch the numbers yourself. Here, I'll even help you out by providing a good link:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing

(11-01-2017, 10:41 PM)McC Wrote: Well, if you were swimming and you had an anchor chained to your back, how much would you have to say about the temperature of the water? 

(11-01-2017, 11:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But surprisingly you considered attempts in 2009. I wonder why?

I suppose we'll go with dense Mod as I am not being intentionally obtuse. I think I'll reserve conversation for others in this forum.  

(11-01-2017, 04:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the fact you have to go back almost 30 years to call horseshit speaks for itself. Palmer was always well protected. He did get his nose busted in a preseason game once and folks lost their minds, but his protection was always well above average.

Andy has had a very good oline his whole career up to this point. like I said each year a handful of QBs have to deal with an atrocious Oline. This year is Andy's and it is all folks can talk about.  

(11-01-2017, 04:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: So, lets's take a look at the 4 playoff games that Andy played in.

In 2011 against the Texans, the leading rusher and receiver was Brian Leonard. The offensive performance was putrid overall. The defense was gashed for 188 yards rushing. The entire team stunk up the joint.

In 2012 against the Texans, they Bengals ran the ball a grand total of 16 times and the O was held under 200 yards. Again, an abysmal performance. The D allowed Schaub to complete 29/38 and gave up over 400 yards.

In 2013 against the Chargers, the entire team forgot they had to play the 2nd half in one of the most embarrassing halves of football I'v ever seen in a playoff game. The coaching staff had absolutely no answers.

In 2014 against the Colts, they were riddled with injuries but were only down 3 at the half. Then, once again, the entire team did absolutely nothing in the 2nd half. On top of that, the D gave up almost 500 yards.

Yes, Andy certainly played his part in these losses, but so did basically the entire team and coaching staff. They were top-to-bottom failures. 

While I don't think Andy is an 'elite' QB and still has faults that can be frustrating at times, I do think he's a very good NFL QB and takes far more blame than he deserves. I don't have an issue with people criticizing him after a bad performance, as long as you also acknowledge when he plays well. What I don't like is people who simply bash everything he does without providing valid reasons for it. 

(11-01-2017, 05:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If you're talking just Palmer/Dalton era, I agree, we've never seen anything close to this bad as far as the whole o-line and as you said, especially at LT.  

We saw issues at C, RT and LG at different times during those years, but yeah, to have an entire line playing like shit at the same time is new territory for this era...and why the conversation does usually lead back there.

I do remember some of those mid to late 90's lines being pretty rough to watch as well.

(11-01-2017, 09:24 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: So we can all agree that the problem is the Piano Man. Seems like he has no clue on how to build or evaluate players where you have multi faceted lineman that can actually run block and pass block.

(11-01-2017, 10:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Except that all those 'excuses' are also an unfortunate reality. As I said, Andy certainly has his share of blame in those games, but the fact is that the entire team and coaching staff shit their collective pants as well. 

You're certainly entitled to whatever opinion you want to have of Andy brother, but you can't just ignore facts like they didn't happen, as far as the playoff games go.

(11-01-2017, 10:45 PM)McC Wrote: Remember using AJ as a decoy for an entire half? 

(11-02-2017, 02:56 AM)Utts Wrote: Andy is not the problem. However, regardless of protection, we can do better at QB, and the answer might still be on our roster thanks to the other inept Ohio franchise to the North.

(11-01-2017, 10:45 PM)McC Wrote: Remember using AJ as a decoy for an entire half? 

(11-01-2017, 09:57 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You know what I see here?   A bunch of excuses for a mediocre QB. 

(11-01-2017, 09:59 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Funny that's how I feel about Dalton apologists.

(11-02-2017, 09:44 AM)Wyche Wrote: While nowhere near as bad as what we've seen this year, I'd argue that the end of 2007-09, the line was pretty bad.  Anytime you're having to run unbalanced sets with a FB to run the football in this league, you're bad at your job.  The pass pro during those years weren't stellar either.  By 2010, they were starting to regroup, by 2012, it was a good unit.

(11-02-2017, 11:38 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Andy is mediocre at best.   he cant hang in the pocket,  he scramble for shit, cant throw on the run, and isnt clutch at all. yes the offensive line is complete garbage but we can definitely upgrade at quarterback. i remember the first playoff game against the Texans AJ Green was wide open for a touchdown with a few seconds left. Andy over threw him and i kinda knew back then that Dalton didnt have "It".

(11-02-2017, 11:32 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, no doubt those lines had some issues of their own, especially when Gutcheck was at C and then Lurch at RT...but man, this year's line is just bad across the line - turnstiles at C and both T spots, and 2 G's getting exposed because of the lack of competence on either side of them. 

As I've said before, this group just isn't very talented and that's not something you can change. Boling is the best of the group, but his limitations become much more obvious when others aren't playing well, and  hen his play suffers.

They can't pass block with any consistency. They can't run block with any consistency. They have trouble engaging defenders, sustaining blocks, opening lanes, protecting their QB and their coaching  - or lack thereof - which is a whole other issue. 

Basically, they're just bad at football. 

(10-31-2017, 12:55 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Re-watching the Colts game just makes me more infuriated with Marvin's insistence during the offseason that the o-line 'is not a concern' and during the season that 'they just need to play better'. 

Well, they're not playing better and that should be a huge concern. Watching this line play for 7 games now, one thing is painfully obvious...they're just not very talented. Each of them has glaring limitations, and as a unit, it's magnified even more so.

(11-01-2017, 10:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Except that all those 'excuses' are also an unfortunate reality. As I said, Andy certainly has his share of blame in those games, but the fact is that the entire team and coaching staff shit their collective pants as well. 

You're certainly entitled to whatever opinion you want to have of Andy brother, but you can't just ignore facts like they didn't happen, as far as the playoff games go.

(11-02-2017, 02:56 AM)Utts Wrote: Andy is not the problem. However, regardless of protection, we can do better at QB, and the answer might still be on our roster thanks to the other inept Ohio franchise to the North.

(11-02-2017, 11:38 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Andy is mediocre at best.   he cant hang in the pocket,  he scramble for shit, cant throw on the run, and isnt clutch at all. yes the offensive line is complete garbage but we can definitely upgrade at quarterback. i remember the first playoff game against the Texans AJ Green was wide open for a touchdown with a few seconds left. Andy over threw him and i kinda knew back then that Dalton didnt have "It".