(11-11-2017, 03:31 PM)McC Wrote: This'll go a lot better if you stop saying stupid shit, okay?  Never have I said anything to suggest he's my golden boy.  But, unlike you, I am able to see both sides of the coin.  Don' think for a second I don't scream when he runs out of the pocket and sails the ball into the stands.   Pisses me off too.  But I see where it comes from.

His coaches yell at him, don't take sacks, don't throw int's.  Live to fight another day.  He drops back, it's third and eight, nine, ten, twelve, depending on how many yards the running back lost on first down.  The defense is sending the house.  End of story.  Punt.

Yes, he misses open guys or doesn't see them.  It's infuriating.  But it's not happening in a vacuum.  There are multiple reasons for it.  He didn't forget how to play.  The poor bastid is shell shocked. 

He may be done here.  But he looked done at the end of '14 and came back the next year to have his best season.  Give him a fighting chance, something his offense can hang its hat on,  some way to get first downs, a HC who realizes it's not the 20th century any more and let's see what happens. 

No matter who the QB is, the other issues have to be addressed first.  Doesn't take the ghost of Lombardi to see that.

Andy deserves blame but he ain't the biggest problem in any way, shape or form.

(11-11-2017, 03:34 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Lol not just this year ,why would I just go off one year when I've seen his whole career.2015 being a good year . But here's something one of my buddies brought up in my group . In 2015 Daltons go to year that everyone can look at. Carson Palmer killed Andy's stats close to 5000 yards and 35 tds.  And Palmer wasn't good enough to beat cam Newtons Panthers. In a pass happy league that it's not too hard to get 4000 yards especially with a green to throw too . Dalton only has gotten 4000 yards twice , one of them being only 17 tds 4000 yards .

(11-11-2017, 03:38 PM)Synric Wrote: You are completely missing the point.

 Even if Andy isn't the answer at QB with the situation the Bengals are in right now replacing him won't solve any problems. First they need fix thr offensive line issue.

(11-11-2017, 03:34 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Lol not just this year ,why would I just go off one year when I've seen his whole career.2015 being a good year . But here's something one of my buddies brought up in my group . In 2015 Daltons go to year that everyone can look at. Carson Palmer killed Andy's stats close to 5000 yards and 35 tds.  And Palmer wasn't good enough to beat cam Newtons Panthers. In a pass happy league that it's not too hard to get 4000 yards especially with a green to throw too . Dalton only has gotten 4000 yards twice , one of them being only 17 tds 4000 yards .

(11-11-2017, 03:45 PM)McC Wrote: What does Palmer have to do with it?

And you keep ignoring the enormous impact of no running game, the worst line in the game and terrible coaching, the triumvirate of death to QB's.   You can't seem to grasp the maddeningly simple concept of the sum of its parts, of a multitude of factors that add up to a brick wall in front of the offense and, by extension, the whole team.  How on earth does that all fall on one guy's shoulders?  That's preposterous.  Keep ignoring the mountain of truths and just focus on the one thing.

Like I said, bring on the next victim and see how long it is before you're wanting him gone.

(11-11-2017, 03:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of the day...wins and losses are what it's all about, correct? Yes, wins are a 'team effort' and the point is that it's about much more than a QB rating.

You've made a point of bringing up the QB stats, and examples like Cousins and McCown. However, those stats haven't led their teams to have a season all that different than the Bengals. How is it that either would necessarily 'do better' here than Andy? Have better stat lines? I guess we could at least boast that we're a 3-5 team with a pretty QB rating.

If we're taking all stats and rankings into consideration, then I might as well throw this out there -

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-grade-after-week-9

(11-11-2017, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really not a difficult concept. They have proven that they are performing better than Andy with similar situations. Couple that with a defense (a dynamic you have chosen to ignore) that  is anywhere from 10-20 places better and you have more wins. Decent games by the QB in the Jax, Texans, Ravens, and Pitt games and our record may look much different. Conversely Cousins has lost 2 games this year in which he had a passer rating over 110/


And finally I have no idea what posting analysis by PFF has to do with stats. 

(11-11-2017, 04:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Better line play would improve the the Quarterback play along with the running game.


I don't think you understand how bad the line play is right now. Youre saying these teams are having line problems that's true but not near the level of the Bengals right now. Cincy has the worst Offensive line in football.

(11-11-2017, 03:50 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Because everyone thinks Dalton was elite that year and that was the tell all sign he turned the corner ,when there's Palmer a qb who has 0 rings blew his stats away that's what.

I'm not ignoring your claim. I know the o line is bad,I know there is a sorry run game,I'm just not giving Dalton a pass for his bad play either. I've seen his whole career to make a decision on what he is. Like I said next year will be a new excuse,and so on.im tired of it.im tired of waiting for the Bengals to come back and it's the same crap.

(11-11-2017, 03:17 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Thats just the way it is he is the qb that dont show alot of talent ,hes mid tier at best talent wise. Go around to each team and they argue the qb if they arent doing good. I get your points about run game and o line play. Where I don't get your points is ,he doesn't always have  .5 seconds to throw. There's plenty of opportunities that I've seen where he just sails it. I already know a few things about him. He shows no leadership,no passion except 2015,he shows to be too inconsistent on accuracy ,he doest climb the pocket or maneuver with his feet in the pocket,he leaves the pocket when he doesn't have too. He puts his head down and surrenders to sacks. It's all on tape guys all you have to do to re evaluate the game is watch goodberry on twitter every week ,they desect the games for y'all to see what's going on.ige been following him and others for a few years and seen the flaws on tape. I've studied Dalton and heard everyone's opinions on him for 7 years. I was never a big fan of him from the beginning talent wise.the 2013 playoffs was very depressing to watch 4 straight turnovers by your golden boy.

(11-11-2017, 04:40 PM)McC Wrote: The pocket.  Andy wants to know what this pocket thing of which you speak?  Is that the thing where guys are coming from both ends and up the middle?  Oh, okay, it's the pocket of humanity coming at him unblocked, those same guys waiting in the backfield for any of our RB's as they take the handoff.

Let's see, climbing the pocket.  Is that where he climbs on the backs of one or more of the several rushers coming from every direction?  Cuz that's about the only way he's climbing anything other than climbing up off the ground.

(11-11-2017, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really not a difficult concept. They have proven that they are performing better than Andy with similar situations.

Quote:Couple that with a defense (a dynamic you have chosen to ignore) that  is anywhere from 10-20 places better and you have more wins.

Quote:Decent games by the QB in the Jax, Texans, Ravens, and Pitt games and our record may look much different. Conversely Cousins has lost 2 games this year in which he had a passer rating over 110/

(11-11-2017, 04:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is impossible to argue with opinion. Sure our oline may be the worst in the NFL; someone's has to be. I simply joined the fray to dispute the oft used "No QB could do good behind this line"; which is also just an opinion. My opinion is that there are QBs that can and some that currently do. Andy's current rating of 86.5 is not far off from his career rating of 88.9. So maybe, just maybe there is more to Andy's poor play than the worst Oline in the history of the NFL. 

As the OP suggested: There is always an excuse. When you continually have to look for excuses to prop up somebody, they might not be worth propping up. 

(11-11-2017, 04:44 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Lol ok have it your way he only gets .5 seconds every snap just like last year they said.  Go watch all 22 , but id bet you wouldnt know what your looking at.

(11-11-2017, 04:45 PM)Synric Wrote: Just with that statement your whole argument loses all credibility....

(11-11-2017, 04:44 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Lol ok have it your way he only gets .5 seconds every snap just like last year they said.  Go watch all 22 , but id bet you wouldnt know what your looking at.

(11-11-2017, 04:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Arguments could be made that Indy's line is worse as they have given up 36 sacks this year and their running game is at 3.6 YPC. Consideration could also be given to Arizona who has surrendered 26 sacks and has a running game averaging 3.0 YPC.

But if you saying Sure, our oline may be the worst in the NFL causes the rest of my argument to "lose all credibility" then it must be true. 

(11-11-2017, 05:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've watched All 22 and have even posted a couple of them on the blog.

I've also listened to Dave Lapham, who's a former lineman and who watches every play of every game. 

His opinion is that Andy's play is suffering because of the beatings he's taking on a weekly basis.

There's no doubt that Andy still makes bad decisions at times, but you can't discount the effects that playing behind a horrible line has on a QB.

(11-11-2017, 03:34 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Lol not just this year ,why would I just go off one year when I've seen his whole career.2015 being a good year . But here's something one of my buddies brought up in my group . In 2015 Daltons go to year that everyone can look at. Carson Palmer killed Andy's stats close to 5000 yards and 35 tds.  And Palmer wasn't good enough to beat cam Newtons Panthers. In a pass happy league that it's not too hard to get 4000 yards especially with a green to throw too . Dalton only has gotten 4000 yards twice , one of them being only 17 tds 4000 yards .