(03-04-2019, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it won't.




Dalton has proven he can win in the NFL.  Rosen has looked like trash and has not shown anything that would indicate he will ever be a better NFL QB than Dalton

Over the past decade there have been 284 QB seasons with at least 300 attempts.  Rosen's 66.7 rating last year ranks 277 out of those 284.  Other than DeShone Kizer in 2017 you have to go back 6 years to find a season as bad as Rosen's.

He also has one of the worst sack rates and fumbled 10 times in 14 games while Dalton has only fumbled 5 times in the last 2 seasons combined.

(03-04-2019, 03:39 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: He also had this guy named AJ Green, a 1000 yard rusher, a top 7 defense led by Mike Zimmer and an OL that only allowed 25 sacks.

(03-03-2019, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the Cards do trade Rosen they can not ask for much in return.  There has to be something bad wrong with a QB to trade him away after just one season.

(03-04-2019, 04:27 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Even if they draft Murray they must trade Rosen before preseason or risk the chance of him underperforming and tanking his value. I don't believe they will draft another QB when they need so many positions filled.

(03-04-2019, 04:27 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Even if they draft Murray they must trade Rosen before preseason or risk the chance of him underperforming and tanking his value. I don't believe they will draft another QB when they need so many positions filled.

(03-04-2019, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Rookie AJ Green who also had no off season and was learning the game with a QB he got about a month of practice with before games? Not like future HoF'er Larry fitzgerald or anything (who was an 1150 WR the year before Rosen got there).

A 1k yard rusher? You mean like David Johnson the 940 yard rusher, and 446 reciever?

Not sure what the defense has to do with Rosen throwing a bunch of interceptions and taking a bunch of sacks but okay.

You mean Rosen who took sacks at a rate nearly twice as often as Palmer the year before with the same line?

You act as if Andy came into a good team, we were picking 4th for a reason that year. As I have pointed out there was NO off season that year meaning as a rookie he had the least amount of coaching of any rookie (tied with others in that class) of any rookie QB in the modern NFL. You reaching hard, Rosen was historically bad last year for a top 10 pick...like David Carr bad.

(03-04-2019, 04:33 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: AJ Green as a rookie is WAY better than Christian Kirk and 36-year-old Larry Fitzgerald.

David Johnson was very underused as I already pointed out. Still effective, but nowhere near his potential.

Funny how you call it Rosen throwing a "bunch of interceptions" when he only threw 1 more than Dalton did in his rookie year. The defense played a huge part as to why we made the playoffs that year. Let's not have revisionist history. Compare the '11 Bengals defense that ranked 7th in total defense and 9th in scoring defense to the '18 Cardinals that ranked 20th in total defense and 26th in scoring defense.

The OL was bad when Palmer was the QB. It regressed, even more, the next season.

Dalton didn't walk into a good team just like Rosen. Don't get me wrong, he had a good rookie year but it helps when you have a star WR to go with a good OC and a defense that'll keep you in games. Rosen had none of that.

(03-04-2019, 04:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: They aren't taking Murray unless they can move Rosen first. Rosen will be gone before Murray's name is called otherwise Murray's name won't be called. 

(03-04-2019, 04:53 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Being first to draft gives them that luxury but by trying to deal him before the draft tips their hand and makes his value drop. Someone who needs to sell puts the buyer in a great position. The Cards coach doesn't want him so then I truly believe that Zac isn't going to break the bank to buy someone else's trash. If they could get him for a third it might be worth taking a flyer on him.

(03-04-2019, 04:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: Opposite, waiting to trade him after the draft forces their hand because if you keep him there it becomes toxic in general. Everyone knows he is for trade, what you need to do is move him now while teams who don't think guys in the draft will fall to them have that to worry about. You wait until after draft everyone gets their QB situation squared up and now you are desperate. 

(03-04-2019, 05:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If they haven't gotten their QB settled and don't have a top five pick they are basically SOL. There are only a few QB prospects this year and counting on a first year bust is not an enviable position to be in. 

(03-04-2019, 03:18 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: No doubt an OL is important, but we KNOW the key to Dalton being good is having an elite OL. With a QB that has more talent than Dalton, you feel more comfortable having an average OL, or having a bad spot at tackle or guard.

It took Dalton until last year to learn how to extend plays and keep his eyes downfield. Watch some film on Rosen. He did that right from the jump.

(03-04-2019, 05:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Not really, there will be teams who like Lock and Jones and think they represent a future plan. Point being 100000% the Cardinals will not draft Murray if they are still holding Josh Rosen when they go on the clock night 1 of the draft. 

(03-04-2019, 05:26 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So what do you think they will realistically get for a QB that has failed to produce and his existing team gave up on him after one year, averaged less than two hundred yds / game, 14 ints in 14 games,10 fumbles. If you believe he will get more than a late second rounder for him I believe you are mistaken.

(03-04-2019, 01:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think they Taylor will bring in a QB at some point too.

It makes sense to do it this year, but it also doesn't make sense because of the huge list of needs we have and some like RT look likely they can only be filled through the draft. (There aren't a lot of good tackles in free agency.)

(03-04-2019, 05:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: You're assuming they trade him no matter what. If they can't recoup a 1st or high 2nd I don't believe they move him, meaning I don't believe they take Murray in that case. Some teams with vet QB's like San Diego, Oakland, New England, Possibly the Giants 2nd round pick. Where Rosen could go and sit for a year may be intriguing. The contract alone with potential makes him worth more than the third people keep throwing out. This is the same league where Nathan Peterman and Blaine Gabbert still find work. 

It's the hot take today, but as we get closer to the draft his value will go up not because what he is but because coaches who loved him in the draft will go back to the tape and decide they can "fix him" like they always seem to do.

Edit: Now that I think about it, pick 30 from New Orleans held by the Packers actually seems like a realistic possibility. Many people related Rodgers demeanor to be similar to Rosen. They have a history of the QB stashing and with a 2nd 1st in play they still can improve right now. I could see them sending 30 overall for Rosen and a 4th.

(03-04-2019, 05:22 PM)McC Wrote: Please list all the years during his career that he has had an elite line in front of him.  Also worth noting that Dalton's teammates have never hated him and no one has ever pointed to his personality as a detriment to his team.

And does Rosen strike anybody as the guy who will sit quietly behind another QB for a couple years?

(03-04-2019, 05:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: You're assuming they trade him no matter what. If they can't recoup a 1st or high 2nd I don't believe they move him, meaning I don't believe they take Murray in that case. Some teams with vet QB's like San Diego, Oakland, New England, Possibly the Giants 2nd round pick. Where Rosen could go and sit for a year may be intriguing. The contract alone with potential makes him worth more than the third people keep throwing out. This is the same league where Nathan Peterman and Blaine Gabbert still find work. 

It's the hot take today, but as we get closer to the draft his value will go up not because what he is but because coaches who loved him in the draft will go back to the tape and decide they can "fix him" like they always seem to do.

Edit: Now that I think about it, pick 30 from New Orleans held by the Packers actually seems like a realistic possibility. Many people related Rodgers demeanor to be similar to Rosen. They have a history of the QB stashing and with a 2nd 1st in play they still can improve right now. I could see them sending 30 overall for Rosen and a 4th.