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+--- Thread: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack (/thread-21714.html)
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - jason - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 10:20 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals are missing Andrew Whitworth but getting rid of Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, and even Jermaine Gresham weren’t smart moves either.
At the time it seemed like Detroit and Atlanta overpaid for them. We also had Whitworth, Zeitler, Burfict, Atkins, and Dunlap coming up for extensions. We all know how that played out... But you can't keep em all.
You know what else really hurt? Our coaching staff was poached following 2015.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - Nicomo Cosca - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Belichick thinks he is worth a 2nd round pick.
But what the hell does he know about football compared to you, right? He apparently doesn't know that good QBs don't need any decent players around them.
What will probably be the last pick in the 2nd round, so basically a 3rd.
And I’m not knocking Sanu, he’s a solid WR, but nobody is going to mention him when talking about teams with the best weapons at the skill position. Which is what we were doing...
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - ochocincos - 10-23-2019
(10-22-2019, 11:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boyd is a WR while Kittle is a TE and the Bengals have 600 more passing yards than the Niners
SF also has 6 time Pro Bowl LT Joe Staley and RB Matt Brieda who is leading all RBs in yards per carry (5.6) and is on pace to rush for over 1000 yards.
SFs #3 RB Tevin Coleman has almost as many yards (227) as Mixon (248)
And their FB Kyle Juszcyk has been to 3 straight Pro Bowls
SF's running game is really good.
Good that you pointed that out.
People should go back to see how Shanahan used his RBs. It was magic.
If they didn't have that running game and defense, I doubt they'd have a winning record right now.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 12:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And I’m not knocking Sanu, he’s a solid WR, but nobody is going to mention him when talking about teams with the best weapons at the skill position. Which is what we were doing...
Sanu is 17th among WR in receptions since 2017. He has 23 more than Tyler Boyd.
That's pretty damn good in a 32 team league.
And he is DEFINITELY good enough to be mentioned every time people talk about the "great receivers" that made Dalton look good.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-23-2019
(10-22-2019, 11:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not wasting any more time making the point that those QBs were/are better than Dalton and their personal performance rarely suffered while the team was having bad years.
Of course they were better than Dalton. that was the whole point of me choosing them to prove that even good QBs suffer with lack of talent/coaching.
You claim that their personal performance rarely suffers is also wrong.
(10-22-2019, 04:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Aaron Rodgers was 10-12-1 over the last two seasons.
IN RODGERS 12 SEASONS AS A FULL TIME STARTER HE HAS ONLY HAD ONE SEASON WITH A PASSER RATING LOWER THAN THE 97.5 HE POSTED OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.
Brett Favre was 12-20 in '05-'06.
BRETT HAD A 71.8 RATING IN '05-'06. OVER THE 3 PREVIUOS SEASONS IT WAS ALMOST 20 POINTS HIGHER (90.7) OVER THE NEXT 3 SEASONS IT WAS ALMOST 25 POINTS HIGHER (94.7).
Matt Ryan was 18-30 from '13-'15.
FROM '13 THROUGH '15 RYAN HAD A 90.8 RATING. THIS IS MATT'S 12TH SEASON AND OTHER THAN THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF HIS CAREER ('08-'09) RYAN HAS NEVER HAD A RATING THAT LOW IN ANY SEASON.
Philip Rivers only had 2 winning season in the six years from '11-'16 (42-54 record)
RIVERS HAD A PASSER RATING OF 93.0 FROM '11-'16. THE THREE YEARS SINCE IT IS 99.0. THE THREE YEARS BEFORE '11 IT WAS 103.8.
Ken Anderson was 13-26 the three seasons before he won his MVP in '81.
ANDERSON HAD A 69.1 RATING FROM '77-'80. THE 3 YEARS BEFORE THAT IT WAS ALMOST 20 POINTS HIGHER (88.9). THE 3 YEARS AFTER THAT IT WAS ALMOST 25 POINTS HIGHER (94.0).
I could go on and on posting examples of good healthy QBs who had bad streaks or seasons in the middle of their careers. It isn't that they happen to forget how to play QB or throw a football for a few years and then remember again. Instead it has to do with the talent/coaching surrounding them. If good QBs could just magically elevate the talent around them they would never have these down spells.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 01:36 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Baltimore has the #2 offense in the league right now in yds/game (434.9), and are only behind NE in points/game (30.6).
Ravens have
2 time Pro Bowl Center (Morgan Cox)
7 time Pro Bowl, and 2 time All Pro OT (Marshall Yanda)
2 time Pro Bowl RB (Mark Ingram)
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - rfaulk34 - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course they were better than Dalton. that was the whole point of me choosing them to prove that even good QBs suffer with lack of talent/coaching.
You claim that their personal performance rarely suffers is also wrong.
I could go on and on posting examples of good healthy QBs who had bad streaks or seasons in the middle of their careers. It isn't that they happen to forget how to play QB or throw a football for a few years and then remember again. Instead it has to do with the talent/coaching surrounding them. If good QBs could just magically elevate the talent around them they would never have these down spells.
I agree that good QBs elevating others around them, to winning season's, when they have a bad team, isn't really a thing.
I think it is possible that they can elevate the team to a certain extent. The better QBs that you named still produced good numbers (to different levels) with only a couple exceptions. I don't think it's out of the question to wonder how much worse the team would have been, without the QB they had.
As i said before, those better QBs can still put up good personal numbers with a bad team around them. Dalton doesn't have that ability. That was the point i was making. No, those guys couldn't elevate a bad team, but they could still put up decent to good numbers, so using them as an example, for Dalton, isn't really a good meauring stick.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - Nicomo Cosca - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sanu is 17th among WR in receptions since 2017. He has 23 more than Tyler Boyd.
That's pretty damn good in a 32 team league.
And he is DEFINITELY good enough to be mentioned every time people talk about the "great receivers" that made Dalton look good.
I can only speak for myself, but I would never use the word great in the same sentence with Mohamed Sanu. Probably not even Boyd or Jones, either. AJ has been his only truly “great” WR. Those other guys fall more into the pretty good category.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - Nicomo Cosca - 10-23-2019
(10-23-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ravens have
2 time Pro Bowl Center (Morgan Cox)
7 time Pro Bowl, and 2 time All Pro OT (Marshall Yanda)
2 time Pro Bowl RB (Mark Ingram)
Why are Pro Bowls always one of your go to’s to prove your point?
Dalton has Pro Bowl TE Tyler Eifert!
See how that’s not really telling the whole story? Just like Mixon and Boyd getting snubbed last season. Otherwise I could point to 3 Pro Bowlers Dalton has on offense.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-24-2019
(10-23-2019, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why are Pro Bowls always one of your go to’s to prove your point?
Because unlike some people here I don't expect people to be impressed with anything just because I claim it is true. So I back up my opinions with facts.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-24-2019
(10-23-2019, 10:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I would never use the word great in the same sentence with Mohamed Sanu. Probably not even Boyd or Jones, either. AJ has been his only truly “great” WR. Those other guys fall more into the pretty good category.
We were not talking about the greatest. We were talking about "really good weapons".
(10-22-2019, 03:36 PM) pid=\784239' Wrote:The best offenses all seem to have really good weapons.
You just tried to move the goalposts when things did not go your way.
I can only speak for myself and Bill Belichick, but any player worth a second round pick is "really good".
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-24-2019
Apparently the Forty niners are another team that needs Nico to tell them that good QBs don't need weapons. They just traded for WR Emmanuel Sanders.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - jason - 10-24-2019
(10-24-2019, 11:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We were not talking about the greatest. We were talking about "really good weapons".
You just tried to move the goalposts when things did not go your way.
I can only speak for myself and Bill Belichick, but any player worth a second round pick is "really good".
What goal post am I moving by pointing out it takes weapons to succeed on offense? That was in response to a post saying Andy needs good weapons to be successful.
I wasn't talking about Sanu at all, but yeah... He's good. He operated well here as a 1 for short periods in 2014.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-24-2019
(10-24-2019, 11:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Lol who was their top receiver before the trade? Probably their TE.
Of course it was their TE.
My point is that based on your logic they should not get more weapons for Garappollo. Instead they should get a good QB who can "elevate" the players around him.
RE: Hart got Mad at Dalton on the Allen Sack - fredtoast - 10-24-2019
(10-24-2019, 12:45 PM)jason Wrote: What goal post am I moving by pointing out it takes weapons to succeed on offense? That was in response to a post saying Andy needs good weapons to be successful.
I wasn't talking about Sanu at all, but yeah... He's good. He operated well here as a 1 for short periods in 2014.
I was not responding to you.
I just quoted your post to show that no one had said "greatest weapons" until Sanu entered the conversation.
Sorry for the confusion.