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+--- Thread: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return (/thread-6637.html)
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 05:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You must not think the coaches want to win if you don't think they are playing the best players.
No, i think that the coaches think the player that has been in the system the longest has a better chance to be better.
Definately not a bad thought all the time either, just not always the case IMHO.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Essex Johnson - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 08:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No, i think that the coaches think the player that has been in the system the longest has a better chance to be better.
Definately not a bad thought all the time either, just not always the case IMHO.
well lets put your theory to test... Hall played less snaps than Dre last year. you would think he would have played more.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Essex Johnson - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 12:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, we disagree then Essex.
I don't think for one moment that the coaches would of started Dennard over Kirkpatrick even if Dennard was
playing better. They had to get Dre on the field to see what he had as him being the older first round pick CB.
Just like this year if Dre plays bad, Dennard would be the first man up to take his job before WJ3. Even if WJ3
is playing a bit better. We won't start a rookie this year if we are trying to integrate Dennard into a starter.
the problem is with your theory.. you have nothing concrete to back it up. My theory holds water in that Coaches want to keep their jobs, playing 2nd unit players over 1st unit players will end up losing their job.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 08:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: well lets put your theory to test... Hall played less snaps than Dre last year. you would think he would have played more.
pfffttt...
Kind of changes with age don't yah think????
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 08:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: the problem is with your theory.. you have nothing concrete to back it up. My theory holds water in that Coaches want to keep their jobs, playing 2nd unit players over 1st unit players will end up losing their job.
It is just what i have seen, it is not a theory. I call out the weaker players every year and i hear the same BS
come from the defenders of the weak links. Of course the coaches want to keep their jobs, but on this team
there has been underwhelming coaches that keep their jobs every year.
You play the best player it just happens to seem that the coaches have waited a year too long at times or
have not seen the best player before he shows. This is could be an honest mistake.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Essex Johnson - 06-14-2016
(06-14-2016, 09:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is just what i have seen, it is not a theory. I call out the weaker players every year and i hear the same BS
come from the defenders of the weak links. Of course the coaches want to keep their jobs, but on this team
there has been underwhelming coaches that keep their jobs every year.
You play the best player it just happens to seem that the coaches have waited a year too long at times or
have not seen the best player before he shows. This is could be an honest mistake.
So it is just an opinion without any real factual prove, got it
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bengalsturntup5532 - 06-15-2016
(06-12-2016, 02:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Like Hall getting beat like a drum all last year...
That was Kirkpatrick my friend.
Like Dre being better than Hall at this point, not true from what we saw last year...
Hall would be great depth from what we saw of him last year if he does not fall off. The lack of respect in your post was insulting IMO.
Just break up your paragraphs a touch man so people can read them, it is not hard to do.
Ok i will try to break up my paragraphs Lol Im not used to doing that but will try it. Also think of it this way, dre is on the outside, hes taller and younger for one. I do remember him getting alot of flags, i do remember him fans saying He got beat, But He got bailed out by the qb not going to his man, But Dre wasnt that bad.
New paragraph Lol, Hall on the other hand i remember not getting But i think 1 pick, and letting his man complete many passes, vividly the playoff game. Now we got two other ball hawks that we have Now, Dennard and Jackson. If you sign Hall, this takes time from the ball hawks, because thats what Marvin does with VETS.
You cant have him buried at the bottom of the depth chart either because that is for special teamers. My choice would be Kirkpatrick> Hall If there was a choice on who to keep. I do not want Hall back at all.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bengalsturntup5532 - 06-15-2016
(06-13-2016, 09:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dre did not get beaten more often that Hall last year.
Dre was better than Hall last year. That is why Dre played 98% of the snaps and Hall only played 69%.
I actually agree with fred toast here. And i thought i woukd never agree with him, because i used to be a reader on here for a while. BUT havnt had any big disagreements with him. Just wanted to say that.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - SHRacerX - 06-15-2016
When healthy, and that is not how things were for either guy at times last season, I would say Hall has better tackling and instincts and it isn't even close. However, Hall lacks the vertical speed and length of Dre, which is the main thing he has going for him right now.
If both were healthy today, I would say Hall would be better at his position (slot corner) than Dre is at his (outside CB). I think Dre could not only lose his spot to WJIII if he isn't showing more than he did last year, he could lose it to Dennard. Adam Jones is still the #1 CB on this team.
Either way, I think the drafting of WJIII and the previous selection of Dennard have put this club on solid ground in the secondary for years to come.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Sled21 - 06-15-2016
(06-14-2016, 08:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: the problem is with your theory.. you have nothing concrete to back it up. My theory holds water in that Coaches want to keep their jobs, playing 2nd unit players over 1st unit players will end up losing their job.
That makes no sense at all. Coaches keep their job by winning. And you win by playing the best player available. And if that happens to be a cheaper rookie, that frees up a trade or not bringing back an expensive vet, then that is icing on the cake. C'mon.....
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - fredtoast - 06-15-2016
(06-14-2016, 09:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I call out the weaker players every year and i hear the same BS
come from the defenders of the weak links.
Because you are often wrong.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 04:17 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Ok i will try to break up my paragraphs Lol Im not used to doing that but will try it. Also think of it this way, dre is on the outside, hes taller and younger for one. I do remember him getting alot of flags, i do remember him fans saying He got beat, But He got bailed out by the qb not going to his man, But Dre wasnt that bad.
New paragraph Lol, Hall on the other hand i remember not getting But i think 1 pick, and letting his man complete many passes, vividly the playoff game. Now we got two other ball hawks that we have Now, Dennard and Jackson. If you sign Hall, this takes time from the ball hawks, because thats what Marvin does with VETS.
You cant have him buried at the bottom of the depth chart either because that is for special teamers. My choice would be Kirkpatrick> Hall If there was a choice on who to keep. I do not want Hall back at all.
Much easier to read, good job.
I am just not willing to say i don't want Hall back at all. You can never have enough good Corners and i still think
Hall is a good Corner to have for depth. I also don't think he would be taking time from the young guys either. He
has been injured and will need time to heal. Having him backup the young guys in case of injury seems like a no
brainer to me.
Of course if i had to choose between Kirkpatrick and Hall i would pick Dre just cause of age and upside.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Hammerstripes - 06-15-2016
Let's put this whole argument in perspective.
Give me a list of players that should have been starting that weren't. I can't think of too many off the top of my head.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 06-15-2016
(06-14-2016, 09:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is just what i have seen, it is not a theory. I call out the weaker players every year and i hear the same BS
come from the defenders of the weak links. Of course the coaches want to keep their jobs, but on this team
there has been underwhelming coaches that keep their jobs every year.
You play the best player it just happens to seem that the coaches have waited a year too long at times or
have not seen the best player before he shows. This is could be an honest mistake.
(06-14-2016, 10:24 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So it is just an opinion without any real factual prove, got it
I would argue judging with your own eyes has more facts to it than a theory.
From what i saw last year Dennard was better in limited time than Kirkpatrick and i think most would
agree with me. Problem for him is he got injured and that is his main problem so far in his career, not
ability. Dennard made a great interception last year in limited time while Dre could not make a single
interception all year long in a starting role.
(06-15-2016, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because you are often wrong.
Difference between you and me is i can admit when i am wrong.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bfine32 - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 11:27 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Let's put this whole argument in perspective.
Give me a list of players that should have been starting that weren't. I can't think of too many off the top of my head.
Vinny Rey over Rey M.
Leon over Dre
Z over Bodine (Winston/Fischer RG)
Any FA kicker over Nugent
Gio over Hill
Sims over Peko
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bfine32 - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because you are often wrong.
Got those number on how many TDs Dre gave up last year? I've helped you out some in this thread.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - jason - 06-15-2016
How many did you come up with for Dre bfine?
Never mind. I see you left the last 5 for Fred. We already know Pacman gave up 1 to Hopkins. That leaves 5.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - Hammerstripes - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 12:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Vinny Rey over Rey M.
Leon over Dre
Z over Bodine (Winston/Fischer RG)
Any FA kicker over Nugent
Gio over Hill
Sims over Peko
I don't see Vinny Rey as a better player vs. the run than Rey M. That's what they are using Rey M. for.
Leon over Dre? Are we talking about 2014? Wasn't Dre a little banged up that season?
I can't agree with taking one of our best OG (and one of the better ones in the league) and moving him to center and bringing in an older guy (Winston) or a rookie that didn't look like he was anywhere ready to play in the preseason (Fisher)
Not sure about Hill/Bernard. Hill played in front of him in 2014 and was clearly a better RB. Once Hill started struggling, Bernard started to play more this year.
Sims/Peko. Another interesting case. I'm not sure Sims could hold up with a ton of snaps.
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bfine32 - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 01:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't see Vinny Rey as a better player vs. the run than Rey M. That's what they are using Rey M. for.
Leon over Dre? Are we talking about 2014? Wasn't Dre a little banged up that season?
I can't agree with taking one of our best OG (and one of the better ones in the league) and moving him to center and bringing in an older guy (Winston) or a rookie that didn't look like he was anywhere ready to play in the preseason (Fisher)
Not sure about Hill/Bernard. Hill played in front of him in 2014 and was clearly a better RB. Once Hill started struggling, Bernard started to play more this year.
Sims/Peko. Another interesting case. I'm not sure Sims could hold up with a ton of snaps.
V. Rey should be playing WILL, Burfict to the middle
I think Winston is every bit as good at guard as Bodine is at center and Z would be much better at C. You play your 5 best olinemen.
Nope talking last year; Dre was not very good
But Hill started 15 of 16. That was the question posed
Sims held up just fine when he was the starter in Oakland
RE: Hall and Bengals Still Talking Return - bfine32 - 06-15-2016
(06-15-2016, 01:09 PM)jason Wrote: How many did you come up with for Dre bfine?
Never mind. I see you left the last 5 for Fred. We already know Pacman gave up 1 to Hopkins. That leaves 5.
Hell it's kinda slow today:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015122012/2015/REG15/bengals@49ers/watch
1. Leon (that leaves 4)