(07-22-2025, 05:52 PM)Nepa Wrote: My favorite memory of Fred was when he made a statement so obviously wrong that he was called on it and then, rather than concede the argument, decided to redefine one of the terms in his statement to a meaning that no one would ever use -- indeed, was opposite of what the term actually meant. Fred never lost an argument that I remember. He just created new definitions for terms. His saving grace is that he kept the conversations going in the off-season. Never a dull moment with Fred. Ditto for Joe from Florence.

Edit: That was really off-tangent. But when a thread reaches 75 pages and still the issue remains the same as in the first page, then I guess we should have liberty to open up the conversation.

(07-23-2025, 01:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The organization has a strictly bottom line mentality. That’s not what the vast majority of owners are today. They act scared and frugal most of the time but not necessarily wholly impractical. They signed Tee because Joe and Chase wanted it. They signed Chase because of Joe. But they’d rather miss out on renewing a player than get stuck with an aging one. It’s just huge conservatism. I’m not saying anything you don’t know mind you. But some ownerships just simply are about winning and competing. Many have done it in business and it transcends. The Brown’s love having a team and Paul Brown’s legacy. But winning a SB isn’t an obsession.

(07-23-2025, 12:20 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Or what Bengals will do with the $$ if Tre sits out all year

(07-23-2025, 01:18 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I think MB wants to win a Super Bowl. He just doesn’t know how. He thinks he’s right, all the time. Hes a smart man, and a good business man. But in sports you can’t always look at just the numbers if you want to win. But winning super bowls = more money. And he knows it, he just thinks his way of running a football team is best.

(07-23-2025, 12:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And that's fine it that's the position people want to take. But if you take that position, you can't turn around and complain about the Bengals keeping aging players to long. History said Whitworth was close to done. He was an outlier. History says DE's fall off after 30, Trey may or may not be an outlier. But if a person is for keeping him (I am, just not a 3 or 4 year guarantee), then don't complain when we are paying him for no production. 

(07-23-2025, 07:53 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Chase- 25 years old
Higgins- 26 years old
Hendrickson- 30 years old, and at a position where at that age production usually drops

(07-23-2025, 12:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Look, I get the argument, but it's really coming down to risk.
If you don't want to assume the risk of having to pay someone more for playing only part on their contract, you risk really impacting your team's future for the next few years while trying to find a replacement.
And the Bengals have notoriously not been able to find good replacements for their key higher-priced, elite (ish) players in recent years like Bates, Reader, and now potentially Hendrickson. How many years did it take to finally get competent LT play after Whitworth left? 7 years?

I think the organization needs to have a win-now mentality now that they finally have a team that could/should be super bowl worthy and have the focus be on winning a super bowl within the next 2-3 years.
Losing Hendrickson potentially even starting this year and having to rely on the likes of Ossai, Murphy, and Stewart is only going to lower those chances, as none of those guys are really even half as good as Hendrickson.

(07-23-2025, 02:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Chase: 1st Team All-Pro Triple Crown WR
Higgins: 0x Pro Bowler, last had 1k yards 3 years ago, can't stay healthy
Hendrickson: 1st Team All-Pro Sack King

Quote:Defensive ends in the NFL typically start to show signs of decline in their late 20s, with a more noticeable drop-off after age 30. While some players can maintain high performance levels into their early 30s, the overall trend indicates a peak in their early to mid-20s, followed by a gradual decline. 



Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

• Early Decline (Late 20s):
  Many defensive ends start to experience a decline in their overall performance, including speed and agility, in their late 20s.
• Sharper Decline (30+):
  After age 30, the decline becomes more pronounced, with many players experiencing a more significant drop in their effectiveness and durability.
• Individual Variation:
  While the general trend is towards decline, some players are able to maintain a high level of play well into their 30s due to factors like exceptional talent, meticulous training, and injury history.
• Peak Performance:
  Most defensive ends reach their peak performance in their early to mid-20s, with their athleticism and production peaking around age 26 according to Sports Info Solutions.
  

Therefore, while some defensive ends can defy the aging curve, most will experience a decline in their performance as they approach and enter their 30s

(07-23-2025, 01:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You nailed my thoughts on Fred, he could never admit he was wrong. I think I got him to admit he was wrong one time in all of the years.

That was like pulling the short and curly's too....

(07-23-2025, 04:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Does not negate his age.

You cannot deny signing him to a 3 or 4 year deal is a huge gamble with a lot of money.

(07-23-2025, 04:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You cannot deny signing him to a 3 or 4 year deal is a huge gamble with a lot of money.

(07-23-2025, 05:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If the time to gamble isn’t when you have Joe ***** Burrow in his absolute prime (dude is already 28) then there will never be a better time. They can either just play it safe and prioritize winning contract negotiations, or they can push the chips all the way in and try to actually win a SB. Something this almost 60 year old franchise has never done, and will never have a better chance to do after Burrow is gone

(07-23-2025, 04:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You cannot deny signing him to a 3 or 4 year deal is a huge gamble with a lot of money.

(07-23-2025, 04:39 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I'm not saying players don't decline with age but is what you quoted above from one of those Goolge AI responses because the link at the end, "according to Sports Info Solutions", is an article that is an excerpt form a book called The Fielding Bible – Volume V and is about baseball players. 

(07-23-2025, 05:07 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Is all that money better spent on an aging player who "may be great" again for one, maybe two seasons, or upgrading several positions across the defense with the same money? 

(07-23-2025, 05:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A bigger gamble... is not paying him, going into a year with Joseph Ossai and Myles Murphy as your starting DEs, and telling all of your defensive players and outside FAs that they will not be paid here.

Not even really a gamble, honestly. It'll be the third straight year of missing the playoffs. Just pissing Joe Burrow's career away.

(07-23-2025, 05:07 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Is all that money better spent on an aging player who "may be great" again for one, maybe two seasons, or upgrading several positions across the defense with the same money?

(07-23-2025, 05:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You act like he's the difference between making the playoffs or not making the playoffs. He was here the last two years we missed them, so how does that work? I'm just spitballing here, but maybe we would be better off using his money to upgrade several other positions and picking up someone else's DE that will be waived at camp...

(07-23-2025, 05:08 PM)Nepa Wrote: it really reads like an AI response. Particularly after a brief summary, the words: "Here's a more detailed breakdown."

I find some of the AI stuff to be so far off. I got in an argument with AI about the verb tense it used in a sentence, it gave a detailed explanation of why that verb tense was correct, I asked some more questions, it finally realized its error, and I said, "so, you lied?" AI then responded, "Yes, I lied."

Quote:It is understood that as a player ages, his performance weakens, but just how does that happen on the defensive end? In looking at the history of Defensive Runs Saved, an aging curve was generated. It showed that a player’s defensive peak is his age 26 season, with a steady decline for the rest of his career, including a more substantial decline beyond his age 30 season.