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+--- Thread: The big 3 is the problem (/thread-13393.html)
RE: The big 3 is the problem - McC - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 03:42 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Well I am a die hard Bengals fan I wish they'd go win out and go to the Superbowl. I wish the coach would make adjustments to the o line and Andy played great. But if I know marvin he won't fix much. If like to see if McCarron would do any better then Dalton for 2-3 games . I'd also like to take advantage of a nice draft of qbs, I don't care if there's a qb competition . Or if the new qb has to sit for awhile,atleast prepare this team. Not wait another two years to train a young guy.thats just my conclusion and on my wishlist.I would like to see McCarron play a game too, just to end this pipe dream.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - McC - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 05:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Nobody is discounting the inferior O line. What others are trying to point out is that there are plenty of QBs in the NFL that would overcome those deficiencies and play at a much higher level than Dalton.
He's had the luxury of having a top 5 WR his entire career and above average o line play his entire career besides this season.....so enough with the excuses.
Maybe, maybe not. There's no way of knowing, since no one else has the worst line and no running game and the best receiver doubled and tripled the whole game and one other option most of the time and Marvin as a HC and an owner too goofy to even protect his investment, for the second era in a row.
Wilson might succeed for awhile, until he got broken from running so much. Anybody else? No.
If you don't fix the big mess first, bringing in another QB is beyond stupid. If it's a guy to sit behind Dalton for a year, while you get a new line together and a new staff, top to bottom, maybe. But I say let the new guy decide.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Bengalholic - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 05:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Nobody is discounting the inferior O line. What others are trying to point out is that there are plenty of QBs in the NFL that would overcome those deficiencies and play at a much higher level than Dalton.
Since you state it so definitively...I'm curious as the who the 'plenty' would be that would automatically play at a much higher level with this Bengals line, running game and coaching staff. Plenty means a large quantity, so there should be a lot of current QB's who have a history of proving they can overcome such things while playing at much higher level...otherwise it's nothing more than conjecture.
Quote:He's had the luxury of having a top 5 WR his entire career and above average o line play his entire career besides this season.....so enough with the excuses.
And...those teams made the playoffs 5 straight years. Does Andy get any of the credit for that...at all? If the problem is how he played in the postseason - and he did play poorly overall - then those staffs and teams have to be held to the same standard, because they collectively shit the bed.
BTW, I'm not saying that the Bengals can't upgrade from Dalton, or that they shouldn't try to...I'm just saying that this notion that there are a bunch of current NFL QB's out there that could just magically come in and do better is a little silly.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 07:56 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: BTW, I'm not saying that the Bengals can't upgrade from Dalton, or that they shouldn't try to...I'm just saying that this notion that there are a bunch of current NFL QB's out there that could just magically come in and do better is a little silly.
People will always feel the grass is greener on the other side of the fence....until they see that the fence sucks its letting the weeds through which is killing the grass.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bfine32 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 07:56 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: BTW, I'm not saying that the Bengals can't upgrade from Dalton, or that they shouldn't try to...I'm just saying that this notion that there are a bunch of current NFL QB's out there that could just magically come in and do better is a little silly.
I agree that it is silly to think they could do it with magic.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bengalfan74 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 05:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Nobody is discounting the inferior O line. What others are trying to point out is that there are plenty of QBs in the NFL that would overcome those deficiencies and play at a much higher level than Dalton.
He's had the luxury of having a top 5 WR his entire career and above average o line play his entire career besides this season.....so enough with the excuses.
Do you honestly think there are "plenty of QB's" out there that could come in here and win under the current conditions this team has ?
I don't give a crud about stats ! Others change the argument to stats because it fits their narrative better.
Win with a putrid O-line where free rushers are coming at the QB every other pass play. Win with absolutely no running game ! Defenses don't even have to slightly consider that we're running it.
Win with a so so defense that's only going to get more tired and worse as the season wears on because the offense is going 3 and out way to much.
Win with this coaching staff that has failed to do anything besides mediocre for 15 seasons now.
I want to see this list "of plenty"
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Bengalholic - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 08:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree that it is silly to think they could do it with magic.
Well, playing behind this line, they would need to channel their inner Houdini.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - CornerBlitz - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 08:25 PM)Synric Wrote: People will always feel the grass is greener on the other side of the fence....until they see that the fence sucks its letting the weeds through which is killing the grass.
Here's the list of Qbs that would play better than AD.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Carr
Wilson
Big Ben
Prescott
Stafford
Watson
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
That's 12 that I feel extremely confident would be better. I can name another 5-10 that are debatable.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bengalfan74 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Here's the list of Qbs that would play better than AD.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Carr
Wilson
Big Ben
Prescott
Stafford
Watson
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
That's 12 that I feel extremely confident would be better. I can name another 5-10 that are debatable.
Forget, play better, forget stats, forget completion %, think wins.
You honestly think we can leave everything else the same and bring anyone of these QB's in and win.
And to be clear "win" is deep playoff runs, Super Bowl Championships.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Here's the list of Qbs that would play better than AD.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Carr
Wilson
Big Ben
Prescott
Stafford
Watson
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
That's 12 that I feel extremely confident would be better. I can name another 5-10 that are debatable.
Looks like you made a list of QBs you think are good. Not ones you think would be successful behind a bad line and no run game. Huge difference.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - CornerBlitz - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And to be clear "win" is deep playoff runs, Super Bowl Championships.
I feel confident in all of these QBs going forward, i think all of them have the potential to win a SB. I can't say the same for AD.
Let me put it a different way. You have those QBs with the type of teams we had a few years ago and that O Line, I'm confident one of those years we make a run.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - CornerBlitz - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Looks like you made a list of QBs you think are good.
Yea, so what? I made a list of QBs that I think would play better than AD under the same circumstances.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:50 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Yea, so what? I made a list of QBs that I think would play better than AD under the same circumstances.
There's a huge difference man. You listed quarterbacks that depend on the offensive line. Brady Brees Carr Wentz Stafford Prescott Big Ben Ryan.
Now I'd buy Wilson Brees Newton as possible QBs that would be successful with a bad offensive line...The rest depend on that line to keep them clean.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - CornerBlitz - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:58 PM)Synric Wrote: There's a huge difference man.
I was defending my original claim that there are plenty of QBs in the NFL that would play better than AD under the same circumstances. I'm not sure what else you want or are conflating my argument with others in the same thread.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:00 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I was defending my original claim that there are plenty of QBs in the NFL that would play better than AD under the same circumstances. I'm not sure what else you want or are conflating my argument with others in the same thread.
Depends on what you consider better...do you think they would have a winning season? Cuz I sure as hell dont.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bfine32 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:58 PM)Synric Wrote: There's a huge difference man. You listed quarterbacks that depend on the offensive line. Brady Brees Carr Wentz Stafford Prescott Big Ben Ryan.
Now I'd buy Wilson Brees Newton as possible QBs that would be successful with a bad offensive line...The rest depend on that line to keep them clean.
Brady has been sacked 21 times this year. Not sure how clean his line is keeping him. Stafford has been sacked 26 times this year and an average of 42 times over the last 3. Not sure how much he has depended on his oline to keep him clean.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Brady has been sacked 21 times this year. Not sure how clean his line is keeping him. Stafford has been sacked 26 times this year and an average of 42 times over the last 3. Not sure how much he has depended on his oline to keep him clean.
Again sack numbers alone are not conclusive of how well the line is blocking.
How many hurries? how many QB Hits? how many 3rd and longs? How quick is the ball getting out?
Andy wad hit on 35% of thr drop backs in Indy...35%....
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Bengalholic - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:49 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I feel confident in all of these QBs going forward, i think all of them have the potential to win a SB. I can't say the same for AD.
Let me put it a different way. You have those QBs with the type of teams we had a few years ago and that O Line, I'm confident one of those years we make a run.
So, what if Dalton had been the Pats starter the last 7 years, and Brady the Bengals --- which do you feel would have more playoff success and why?
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bfine32 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:32 PM)Synric Wrote: Again sack numbers alone are not conclusive of how well the line is blocking.
How many hurries? how many QB Hits? how many 3rd and longs? How quick is the ball getting out?
Andy wad hit on 35% of thr drop backs in Indy...35%....
Doesn't matter how bad Andy has it and how he is forced to play under circumstances that no QB could overcome. You stated the QBs mentioned depend on their line to keep them clean when clearly that's not the case; especially in the case of Stafford; as he is getting sacked once every 11 attempts. Let's just assume he's also getting hit and hurried. Your post lost all credibility.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Doesn't matter how bad Andy has it and how he is forced to play under circumstances that no QB could overcome. You stated the QBs mentioned depend on their line to keep them clean when clearly that's not the case; especially in the case of Stafford; as he is getting sacked once every 11 attempts. Let's just assume he's also getting hit and hurried. Your post lost all credibility.
Key word assuming anything is a very bad idea. Let's ASSUME the sacks could be related to the more downfield scheme that the Lions run compared to the get the ball out in 2.5 second the Bengals are running
You want to prove anything show me numbers. How many QB Hits how many pressures? Whats the average time for the QB release?
All 3 please.
PS: Don't tell me scheme doesn't matter because Big Ben switching from Arians to Haley would disagree...