+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: The big 3 is the problem (/thread-13393.html)
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bfine32 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:53 PM)Synric Wrote: Key word assuming anything is a very bad idea. Let's ASSUME the sacks could be related to the more downfield scheme that the Lions run compared to the get the ball out in 2.5 second the Bengals are running
You want to prove anything show me numbers how many How many QB Hits how many pressures? Whats the average time for the QB release?[/size]
All 3 please.
I've shown you how many sacks Stafford has had. Only one of us has suggested we also include hits and pressures; yet you want me to be the one to provide the numbers. I really don't think it's supposed to work that way.
I have "proved" that Stafford gets sacked once every 11 pass attempt this year and at a similar rate the last 3, that does not equal depending on his oline to keep him clean.
If you want to change what you said to "Not as bad as Andy has it" feel free; but that is not what you said; nor what I was disputing.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 10:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've shown you how many sacks Stafford has had. Only one of us has suggested we also include hits and pressures; yet you want me to be the one to provide the numbers. I really don't think it's supposed to work that way.
I have "proved" that Stafford gets sacked once every 11 pass attempt this year and at a similar rate the last 3, that does not equal depending on his oline to keep him clean.
If you want to change what you said to "Not as bad as Andy has it" feel free; but that is not what you said; nor what I was disputing.
Sad thing is you'd have a case if you went with Brady because he gets the ball out quick in the New England Scheme. Stafford on the other hand holds it longer which causes more sacks, hits, and pressures. Same with Carson and Arians offense.
That's why tape is more important than straight numbers.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - rfaulk34 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 01:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I have no problem saying that Andy has made his share of mistakes this year. However, I will also say that when you're playing behind a line that is laughably bad, it's fair to think that the constant pressure and lack of a running game factors in to his play. It's difficult to get a fair assessment.
Also, when you're talking about guys like Brady, Wilson and Rogers...there are a couple of differences. Those are, in my opinion, three of the top 4 QB's in the game right now...and 2 of them are among the best of all-time. To say that they would do better behind this line isn't an outlandish thought, they may very well do better...which would reinforce why they are considered the best at their position.
Andy is not an elite QB. He's not going to be able to overcome atrocious line play in the same way the 2 future HOFers and a great scrambler would be. Having said that, I would still argue that Andy has done a pretty decent job this year given the circumstances.
In regards to this discussion, i think it's fair to say (obviously) that the Bengals Oline is worse than Seattle's and Dalton is noticeably worse at escaping pressure than Wilson is.
I don't agree with the assessment that "no one" could do well behind this line, as putrid as they are. Dalton has done well, considering his abilities, but his actual biggest problem is the number of big plays he's missed while having enough time to throw. I don't think it's fair (not saying that you are saying this...just in general) to use "gun shy" as a reason for his misses. If someone is going to try and put him in a higher tier, he needs to be able to overcome that somehow.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bfine32 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 11:08 PM)Synric Wrote: Sad thing is you'd have a case if you went with Brady because he gets the ball out quick in the New England Scheme. Stafford on the other hand holds it longer which causes more sacks, hits, and pressures. Same with Carson and Arians offense.
That's why tape is more important than straight numbers.
Actually Tom and Matt are getting rid of the ball at the same time this year (2.66 seconds) while Andy is at (2.54). So the going with Brady over Matt slant and the sadness it caused you loses all credibility.
I will give you credit "film watcher" if you can spot the 1/10 of a second faster that Andy gets rid of the ball. Just don't blink when you watch the film as a blink takes 1/3 of a second:
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw
RE: The big 3 is the problem - rfaulk34 - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Here's the list of Qbs that would play better than AD.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Carr
Wilson
Big Ben
Prescott
Stafford
Watson
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
That's 12 that I feel extremely confident would be better. I can name another 5-10 that are debatable.
Actually, that's about it.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Synric - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 11:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually Tom and Matt are getting rid of the ball at the same time this year (2.66 seconds) while Andy is at (2.54). So the going with Brady over Matt slant and the sadness it caused you loses all credibility.
I will give you credit "film watcher" if you can spot the 1/10 of a second faster that Andy gets rid of the ball. Just don't blink when you watch the film as a blink takes 1/3 of a second:
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw
I did say you would have an argument if you went with Brady lol. But then your arguing Belicheat is better than Lazor and Marvin....that's like a no shit sherlock.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Socal Bengals fan - 11-12-2017
Dalton sucks ass and needs to be replaced.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - THE PISTONS - 11-12-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Here's the list of Qbs that would play better than AD.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Carr
Wilson
Big Ben
Prescott
Stafford
Watson
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
That's 12 that I feel extremely confident would be better. I can name another 5-10 that are debatable.
The current version of those QB's would be better than Dalton here.
BUT, IF the Bengals drafted the guys on that list...they may have ended up like Carson Palmer here and not won a playoff game and demanded a trade.
ie Rodgers may not have developed into the elite Rodgers that the Packers have here with our coaches.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Socal Bengals fan - 11-12-2017
7 years from now the Dalton homers will still be defending him as he struggles with a throw to the rb coming out the back field.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Fan_in_Kettering - 11-12-2017
The offensive line is better at pass blocking than they are at run blocking. That’s not saying much.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Nicomo Cosca - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 12:41 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive line is better at pass blocking than they are at run blocking. That’s not saying much.
I can’t remember a worse Bengals running game. Just abysmal.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Fan_in_Kettering - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 12:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can’t remember a worse Bengals running game. Just abysmal.
...and you can’t control the clock by passing. 2009 was amazing; remember Cedric Benson? That was a run-first offense. Now we have a run for loss and pass for desperation until you punt offense. Jeremy Hill, Giovani Bernard, and Joe Mixon are above average running backs, so why are they getting hit at — or behind — the line? That’s not on Andy Dalton. Do they lack vision to see the gaps? No. There are no gaps.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - THE PISTONS - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 12:41 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive line is better at pass blocking than they are at run blocking. That’s not saying much.
Yeah...I laugh when people say that the line is improving. In some small way the Tackles pass blocking has improved. The run blocking is horribly bad. Also guys like Boling have got worse.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bengalsturntup5532 - 11-12-2017
I'm not going to defend the o line ,but just like someone says when the plays are there for Dalton he's just inaccurate and shows no pocket maneuverability, he forgot what a pump fake is too.
Watch the game tomorrow,I promise you Dalton will have a Dalton type game ,he's inconsistent even during the game.he will throw atleast 5 bad throws ,probably overthrow some deep balls ,won't call the right protection against the blitz this is typical.watch and see.
I don't know why you guys don't want to look towards the draft or have another plan for next year. So you guys are fine with just giving him the job next year,and probably not having a new qb for 3-4 years giving us a chance? They need to prepare this team to move on from Dalton.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bengalsturntup5532 - 11-12-2017
I actually would take any of these guys ,Rosen, darnold ,baker Mayfield I really like the most, or Lamar Jackson, there's also Rudolph, but I'm not too sure about him.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - bengalsturntup5532 - 11-12-2017
Actually even if you wanted to keep Dalton next year ,drafting a higher draft pick I think would show him you better step your game up,kind of like what kc did .maybe that would motivate him to see house again and with a new coach. I'd be willing to except that for next year .t
RE: The big 3 is the problem - THE PISTONS - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 01:16 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I actually would take any of these guys ,Rosen, darnold ,baker Mayfield I really like the most, or Lamar Jackson, there's also Rudolph, but I'm not too sure about him.
That's just it...our of those 4 guys chances are 1 will be good...if that.
Look at the Year we took Akili Smith. You had Couch, McNabb, Smith, McNown, and Culpepper.
It was compared to the Marino/Elway draft.
McNabb turned out pretty good. Culpepper above average to good some years. The rest busts.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - THE PISTONS - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 01:20 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Actually even if you wanted to keep Dalton next year ,drafting a higher draft pick I think would show him you better step your game up,kind of like what kc did .maybe that would motivate him to see house again and with a new coach. I'd be willing to except that for next year .t
Yeah...but we're a team that doesn't sign many free agents. I don't know if we can burn a 1st Round pick to show our current QB that he has to try harder.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Shake n Blake - 11-12-2017
(11-11-2017, 11:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Actually, that's about it.
Not so sure I'd say Ben. Not anymore. His numbers are very similar (slightly worse) than Andy's, and he's in a way better situation.
RE: The big 3 is the problem - Shake n Blake - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 12:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can’t remember a worse Bengals running game. Just abysmal.
You can't remember one because there is none. Our yards/game and yards/carry are all-time lows for the franchise...and here we are talking about the QB. #BengalsBoards