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+--- Thread: Style over Substance (/thread-27584.html)
RE: Style over Substance - The Clapp - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 02:49 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I guess that's what happens when you can't draft worth shit.
How many starters did they draft last year? Im just asking.. Usually, if you draft 2 or 3 starters, its considered a very good draft.
RE: Style over Substance - Gdale_Bengal - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:30 PM)Stewy Wrote: There's 8-10 viable OLine prospects still availalbe because of how the draft fell, and only 6 picks till 38. Doesn't matter if every pick before us is OLine (which it won't be), there will still be a great pick for us there.
Honestly more like 14 lol. In a really good spot to get an excellent talent.
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:35 PM)The Clapp Wrote: How many starters did they draft last year? Im just asking.. Usually, if you draft 2 or 3 starters, its considered a very good draft.
It was a very good draft. Burrow, Higgins and Wilson are all starters.
Wilson not immediately but he is our best LB right now in my opinion. ADG, Adeniji and Bailey were also very good picks.
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:15 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Personally, I hope we don't have to rely on rookies this year because rookies lead to rookie mistakes. One mistake by a rookie right guard or T or whatever and we could see a recreating of what happened to Burrow last season.
Well, I think a good rookie could start and be an upgrade over MJ for damn sure. Never like to rely on rookies though even
though a lot of the all Sewell guys were ready to rely on him it seems.
We have to remember that even when we had a great OL Palmer got hurt. Nothing is a sure thing.
I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that both XSF and especially Spain didn't have an entire Offseason to prepare
for the Offense last year. Spain when in his prime was one of the best pass blocking Guards in the entire NFL. We need some
good OL that can both pass block and run block, this will take the pressure off of Burrow so he doesn't have to throw 50 times
a game.
RE: Style over Substance - jason - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 09:38 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Is Joe Burrow and elite generational QB or isn't he?
Seriously, because with so many people wanting Chase, fewer people believe that he's not than those that think he is.
Elite generational QBs DON'T NEED all-time receivers to elevate an offense. What do they need? At least an above-average O-line.
Factor in the fact that Chase hasn't played in over a year, appears to have an ego that rivals Ocho-Hellno ("My term jersey is gonna be number 1, because i'm number one! lolololol) and this reeks of something we're gonna regret in 5-10 years time.
The only upside is me calling the Bengals LSU north for the jokesies.
Joe Burrow (while not a finished product) is a middle of the pack NFL QB at the moment. So no... he's not a generational elite QB. He's a good player, a good leader, and had the greatest collegiate season of all time.... but... he needs help.
RE: Style over Substance - Shake n Blake - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 09:15 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I hope you Team Chase people are happy.
Oh, how quickly you all forgot. Mark my words. Last night will be considered the worst draft pick from the Bengals in the last 10 years.
This is kinda silly, but I get the frustration.
Just don't think Chase will be a bust...and he'd need to be, for this to be the worst pick ever.
I mean, this is the team that passed on the Saints' entire draft for Akili Smith.
RE: Style over Substance - Gdale_Bengal - 04-30-2021
I don’t understand why people think great QBs dont need great WRs. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, also a first round pick. Who did Manning have? Reggie Wayne, a first round pick.
This argument is stupid.
RE: Style over Substance - Rubekahn29 - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:35 PM)The Clapp Wrote: How many starters did they draft last year? Im just asking.. Usually, if you draft 2 or 3 starters, its considered a very good draft.
Burrow, Higgins, and Wilson all started/played significant snaps. Probably can expect the same from this years first 3 picks.
RE: Style over Substance - Shake n Blake - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:51 PM)jason Wrote: Joe Burrow (while not a finished product) is a middle of the pack NFL QB at the moment. So no... he's not a generational elite QB. He's a good player, a good leader, and had the greatest collegiate season of all time.... but... he needs help.
So right now you think Burrow is prime Andy Dalton...and to unlock his true potential, he needs to be surrounded with elite weapons? I really didn't want to argue after the draft, but this seems kinda silly. Like people are just making this stuff up as they go. So after a few years with Chase/Higgins/Boyd/Mixon, will it be safe to let a couple of those guys go? After Burrow reaches his ultimate form?
I just can't let go of the fact that for YEARS we were saying Dalton was trash because he needed all these weapons.
"We need an elite QB who will elevate his teammates". How many times did we hear that?
If Burrow ain't that dude, why did we even take him 1OA? That is a legit question. Even Dalton looked MVP caliber when the team was awesome.
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:56 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t understand why people think great QBs dont need great WRs. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, also a first round pick. Who did Manning have? Reggie Wayne, a first round pick.
This argument is stupid.
Peyton had Marvin Harrison too and Dallas Clark.
Brady had his best season passing with Randy Moss etc.
RE: Style over Substance - XenoMorph - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:56 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t understand why people think great QBs dont need great WRs. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, also a first round pick. Who did Manning have? Reggie Wayne, a first round pick.
This argument is stupid.
QBs definately need WRs....
The arguement here is We have 2 good WRs already... And basically maybe 1 outta 5 long term good OL...
And with Good OL = more time for WRs to get open and routes to develop. and healthier QB (which means a potentially longer and more productive career)
Chase will be a monster but we still got work to do.,
RE: Style over Substance - XenoMorph - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If Burrow ain't that dude, why did we even take him 1OA? That is a legit question. Even Dalton looked MVP caliber when the team was awesome.
Hue jackson had that offense running well. we had a servicable OL and a good mixup of talent at the skill positions... Was fun to watch.
Burrow has the tools but does the coach calling the playS?
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:06 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: QBs definately need WRs....
The arguement here is We have 2 good WRs already... And basically maybe 1 outta 5 long term good OL...
And with Good OL = more time for WRs to get open and routes to develop. and healthier QB (which means a potentially longer and more productive career)
Chase will be a monster but we still got work to do.,
Agree with that, hopefully we get to work on the OL today. If not, I will join the crowd and complain.
We will have to wait and see how it shakes out. Stacked with OL still in this Draft.
RE: Style over Substance - TJ528 - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:08 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Hue jackson had that offense running well. we had a servicable OL and a good mixup of talent at the skill positions... Was fun to watch.
Burrow has the tools but does the coach calling the playS?
Xeno, i think that's the biggest question mark of all to be honest, is the coach calling the plays.
In the previous 2 years, has Zac really done anything that makes you believe he's an offensive guru/genius?
I haven't seen it.
I think we have the skill players now, minus an effective tight end. However, we still need to fix the OL to give Burrow time to throw the ball deep. Deep routes don't develop in 2.5 seconds.
RE: Style over Substance - Shake n Blake - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Peyton had Marvin Harrison too and Dallas Clark.
Brady had his best season passing with Randy Moss etc.
Brady didn't win a ring with Randy. All his chips were with a pretty average group of receivers. Even when you count Gronk it wasn't anything special.
Same with the Eagles in 2018, the Broncos in 2016 (Peyton elevated those guys), Seahawks in 2013, Ravens in 2012, etc...
This logic that WRs = championships is literally a 2021 thing. To justify us taking Chase.
I've literally never seen people saying this until right now. Before it was always "elite QBs elevate their teammates".
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Brady didn't win a ring with Randy. All his chips were with a pretty average group of receivers. Even when you count Gronk it wasn't anything special.
Same with the Eagles in 2018, the Broncos in 2016 (Peyton elevated those guys), Seahawks in 2013, Ravens in 2012, etc...
This logic that WRs = championships is literally a 2021 thing. To justify us taking Chase.
I've literally never seen people saying this until right now. Before it was always "elite QBs elevate their teammates".
All true, those teams also had good to great coaching. Just saying Chase helps as long as we get the OL upgraded.
Not over yet Shake, we haven't even started the 2nd round yet for heck sake. There are tons of quality OL still to be had.
RE: Style over Substance - Snapcount - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:56 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t understand why people think great QBs dont need great WRs. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, also a first round pick. Who did Manning have? Reggie Wayne, a first round pick.
This argument is stupid.
iI am hoping you are right. Personally i would have hoped for, to beef up "the secret service", before getting new "jets" !
RE: Style over Substance - Gdale_Bengal - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:06 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: QBs definately need WRs....
The arguement here is We have 2 good WRs already... And basically maybe 1 outta 5 long term good OL...
And with Good OL = more time for WRs to get open and routes to develop. and healthier QB (which means a potentially longer and more productive career)
Chase will be a monster but we still got work to do.,
Even with time, our receivers struggled to get open. That first Baltimore game, burrow gets sacked 8 times, how many of those were coverage sacks? Do you not believe that finding a receiver who will find ways to get open will help stop or prevent some of those sacks?
There’s tons of work to do. Thankfully there are more rounds with really good rookie linemen to help shore up the offensive line.
RE: Style over Substance - MasonDT70 - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, those teams also had good to great coaching. Just saying Chase helps as long as we get the OL upgraded.
Not over yet Shake, we haven't even started the 2nd round yet for heck sake. There are tons of quality OL still to be had.
I'd say these next 2 picks will make or break this draft. If they pass on oline in the 2nd this draft will likely be bad for me. The interior o line is average on their best day.
RE: Style over Substance - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:31 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I'd say these next 2 picks will make or break this draft. If they pass on oline in the 2nd this draft will likely be bad for me. The interior o line is average on their best day.
Feel the same, pretty damn essential to go OL in the 3rd and 4th at the very least.
Would rather we just go all out and go OL the next 3 rounds and pretty much hedge our bets in getting a starter.